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Offline kevTopic starter

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Money Management https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27551.msg350543#msg350543
« on: June 13, 2011, 03:30:45 pm »
A little while ago an experienced, well known player asked chat which cards he should upgrade next.  He'd built up some excess electrum and was looking for some versatile cards to spend it on.  He told chat that he usually tried to stay below 2k electrum... which floored me.  Newer players often ask either the same question or questions about when to sell cards, so I thought it'd be worth writing a post on the subject of money management.

First let me say that there's nothing wrong with however you want to invest your hard earned electrum.  This game is for fun, and nobody should be able to tell you that buying a life-size stormtrooper replica  is wrong if you really enjoy life-size stormtrooper replicas.  But for players who want to accumulate wealth quickly there are two rules of thumb.

Please note that it has historically been very important to get a fully upped AI3/t50 grinder and a fully upped FG Grinder.  To reach these goals you probably shouldn’t feel bad about selling currently useless upgrades to up cards and make the decks you grind with more effective.  After that point, though, you enter a wealth accumulation phase.

Rule of Thumb Number One: Never sell upgraded cards unless you have more than six copies, and never sell unupgraded cards unless you have over 12 copies total (unupped and upped).
Suppose you’re accumulating wealth and you decide you’ll never play with Aether cards, so you sell them all.  If down the road you enter a PvP Event or a Tournament which requires Aether cards, you’ve paying about a 40% markup over each card you sold.  And the waste adds up quickly.

Why six and twelve?  Because the most copies you can have in a deck are six and you can’t unupgrade cards, having over six upgraded copies is superfluous.  At the same time having ten unupped Flying Weapons and two upped Animate Weapons available means you can upgrade an additional four if you need to and still hold six unupped copies.  If you win an additional upgraded copy you can sell an unupped copy and still be positioned ideally.

Selling cards is particularly heinous with rare cards that can’t be bought.  If you sell your Tridents and tomorrow someone creates a new FG deck using the card, you simply can’t make the deck until you find more Tridents.  That goes double for nymphs which can only be given by the Oracle or as rewards for Tournaments and Leagues.  Resist the temptation. :)
 
Rule of Thumb Number Two: Never buy or upgrade cards unless it's necessary.
Suppose you’re accumulating wealth, you've now come into 9k, and you're considering upping six Flying Weapons because you think you'd like to play a Flying Titan deck down the road.  If you upgrade them for 1500 each and then win upped Animate Weapons before you need them for your deck idea, you'll sell excess copies for 1157 each.  Which means you've thrown 1500 - 1157 = 343 electrum in the garbage for each.  And the waste adds up quickly.

A number of players buy all unupped non-rare cards as soon as possible.  I agree it'd be nice not to have to click over to the bazaar whenever I'm missing a card I need but you have to recognize that you're paying a substantial convenience charge.  For each unupped card you buy, later win, and sell the excess copy, you spent about 40% more for that card than you needed to.  And the waste adds up quickly.

Another important reason not to upgrade cards without reason is that having electrum on hand gives you versatility if you suddenly need something.  Put another way, if you have 45,000 electrum, you have enough dry powder to use any fully upgraded 30-card deck you'd like.  By not upgrading cards you effectively have access to all upgraded cards should the need arise.

In conclusion too many players complain about FG grinding and then turn around and throw electrum away by buying, selling, and upgrading cards unnecessarily.  Many veterans follow the above rules of thumb; I know of one who currently has 500,000 spare electrum and fewer unupped cards than upped cards.  Follow the above rules of thumb to maximize your deckbuilding options.

Offline UTAlan

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Re: Money Management https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27551.msg350553#msg350553
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2011, 03:53:14 pm »
Great advice. Wish I had known this when I first started my FG grinding.

Offline Kiebur

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Re: Money Management https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27551.msg350555#msg350555
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2011, 04:00:11 pm »
Well i kept hold of that last farenheit at least. . .

suddenly i regret some of the things ive done in my rush to up my deck >_<'
Warning: This post may contain sarcasm.

Offline Seraph

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Re: Money Management https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27551.msg350560#msg350560
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2011, 04:10:38 pm »
I bought all the unupped cards
It just feels so good, I can live with wasting some of that money

Offline TheForbiddenOracle

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Re: Money Management https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27551.msg350564#msg350564
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2011, 04:15:50 pm »
Great advice, makes me feel glad I'm following it already :P

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Re: Money Management https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27551.msg350565#msg350565
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 04:17:08 pm »
Fun fact: by not following these rules I have wasted over 100k electrum. Yay me.

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Re: Money Management https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27551.msg350592#msg350592
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 05:20:56 pm »
Please note that it has historically been very important to get a fully upped AI3/t50 grinder and a fully upped FG Grinder.  To reach these goals you probably shouldn’t feel bad about selling currently useless upgrades to up cards and make the decks you grind with more effective.  After that point, though, you enter a wealth accumulation phase.
You might want to put this part in boldface and/or change the color, so the skimming noob doesn't go straight to the green points and then think that they're never supposed to sell cards.

Genuinous

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Re: Money Management https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27551.msg350604#msg350604
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2011, 05:40:42 pm »
Buying all unupped cards (at least 6 of them) and then being able to try out new deck ideas without going to trainer is worth the cost I think, but only if you don't sell cards to get the money.

Also I think NOT SELLING RARES should really be emphasized and the KEEP 12 IN TOTAL be suggested for them seriously. Especially if T500 gets introduced. Even with T50 it took me a while to get back all the rares I sold to get a fully upped CCYB... Now it will be a lot harder for new players!

Otherwise I'm quite surprised how much I follow these rules by myself :D Great job writing it up.

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Re: Money Management https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27551.msg350645#msg350645
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2011, 07:06:59 pm »
Nice work, kev. +rep

But you may want to add something about not selling nymphs for their dowry too. ;)
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Re: Money Management https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27551.msg350783#msg350783
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2011, 09:55:42 pm »
Certain cards seem to build up while grinding level threes. Certain cards don't. After like a year of playing this game, I found out I had 0 firemasters for example. Pay attention to these things and don't feel bad about selling cards that do come up a lot, but hoard what doesn't come up a lot.

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Re: Money Management https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27551.msg355704#msg355704
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2011, 01:55:39 am »
Rule of Thumb Number One: Never sell upgraded cards unless you have more than six copies, and never sell unupgraded cards unless you have over 12 copies total (unupped and upped).
Suppose you’re accumulating wealth and you decide you’ll never play with Aether cards, so you sell them all.  If down the road you enter a PvP Event or a Tournament which requires Aether cards, you’ve paying about a 40% markup over each card you sold.  And the waste adds up quickly.

Why six and twelve?  Because the most copies you can have in a deck are six and you can’t unupgrade cards, having over six upgraded copies is superfluous.  At the same time having ten unupped Flying Weapons and two upped Animate Weapons available means you can upgrade an additional four if you need to and still hold six unupped copies.  If you win an additional upgraded copy you can sell an unupped copy and still be positioned ideally.
So if I'm following this correctly, the main reason to keep 12 of each card (6 unupped and 6 upped) is in case of PVP Events and Tournaments? If so, then since I never play in those, I don't need 12 of each in total, just 6 of each card (unupped plus upped), right?

I'm soooo confoooosed!

Thanks,
LSK Piano

Re: Money Management https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27551.msg355718#msg355718
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2011, 02:23:11 am »
So if I'm following this correctly, the main reason to keep 12 of each card (6 unupped and 6 upped) is in case of PVP Events and Tournaments? If so, then since I never play in those, I don't need 12 of each in total, just 6 of each card (unupped plus upped), right?

I'm soooo confoooosed!

Thanks,
LSK Piano
For some cards, the unupped version has advantages over the upped version.  Nova is free while supernova costs 2 entropy quanta.  Objectively supernova is a "better" card in the sense that it produces a net +22 quanta versus nova's 12, but there may still be cases where nova is preferable.  Gnome gemfinder is free while gnome rider costs 1 quanta.  Gnome gemfinder could mess with automulligan so may not be ideal in all decks with gnomes.

For a couple cards the upped and unupped versions are quite different.  Toadfish/pufferfish, and chaos seed/chaos power.

For some other cards its pretty difficult to see any advantage whatsoever to the unupped version.  I guess the extra light quanta from a ray of light versus a photon could give your opponent extra healing from a black hole but maybe this isn't a good reason to keep around photons.

Really you don't get much from selling the unupped cards so i would just keep them around anyways, but if you really want to squeeze out every last coin there are some unupped cards that you would probably never pick over the upped version unless you were playing in a constrained environment like a tournament or event which like you said you're never going to so you could probably sell those unless you think there's any chance you might change your mind somewhere down the road.  Sorry for the run on sentence and good luck with your money management.

P.S.
Great guide kev.  I follow almost all these rules myself but why do you need both
"a fully upped AI3/t50 grinder and a fully upped FG Grinder"

Can't you just get by with one or the other?

 

anything
blarg: