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Offline Glitch

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Re: 10 Tips for Better Deck Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3329.msg29033#msg29033
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2010, 06:03:51 pm »
For one of the tips put versatility.

If you can't decide between two cards, pick the one that'll be used more often.  E.G, when building a dark deck, two steals and a nightfall are arguably better than two nightfalls and a steal.

Offline plastiqe

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Re: 10 Tips for Better Deck Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3329.msg30075#msg30075
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2010, 05:14:38 pm »
As a player that has used dragons and fire lances to great effect in pvp, I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with a couple things on your list Scaredgirl.

#2  Keep It Simple

This title is incorrect.  Rule number 2 (or even rule #1) should be something like 'decide what you want your deck to be good at, pick a theme and stick too it'.  If you are just starting out in Elements and you want to make some quick cash then fast damage could be your theme, and then keep it simple could apply.  Success against false gods could be another theme and your exception could apply.  Or, if you're like me and are playing pvp, then you might want a "super deck" that is adaptable and has a chance to beat any deck you come up against.

3# Carefully fine-tune the number of your Pillars

While I don't disagree with the title of this tip, there are exceptions.  Cards like Fahrenheit and Dissipation Field get better the more quantum you have stored up.  This goes back to picking a theme for your deck, but sometimes your extra quantum will be what actually kills your opponent.

4# Don't take too many cards

You also need to account for how many copies of each card you take, which I think is the determining factor in how large your deck ends up.  Do you really need 4 copies of FFQ or will 2 suffice?  Perhaps this could be it's own tip, but a lot of deckbuilding is deciding just how many of each card you really need to bring.

Scaredgirl

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Re: 10 Tips for Better Deck Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3329.msg30092#msg30092
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2010, 05:59:29 pm »
Interesting thread.

Perhaps add:

Quote
It is often more efficient, in the long run, to fine tune your deck to work well against a specific set of strategies at the expense of losing against others. In application to FG farmers, it is almost often better to fine tune a deck and use it in a manner that almost guarantees a win against easier gods, while letting you forfeit against the notably much harder ones. The time investment is reduced in battles while at the same time significantly increasing your time spent fighting for a win to grab a card spin.

This can also be applied to AI3 grinding. If you're against an elder with a discord and you are using a monodeck, if you have the best edge to counter the discord, go ahead. However, if the elder had just played it on the first few turns and you have not managed to set up a means to deal enough damage, forfeit. Although you lose 10 gold, you spend less time trying to fight for a win that may not always happen and more time in a battle that you might win.
Yes, this will be one of the tips. I'm calling it "Know Your Enemy". It's definitely a very important part of deck building, especially in PvE.


For one of the tips put versatility.

If you can't decide between two cards, pick the one that'll be used more often.  E.G, when building a dark deck, two steals and a nightfall are arguably better than two nightfalls and a steal.
Question of versatility is not a simple one. Many decks that try to be versatile become more well-rounded but also become weaker in all aspects. "One-trick-ponies" on the other hand do only one thing, but they do it extremely well.

A good example of this is Earth or Fire speed decks. Both of them are ridiculously one-dimensional, but also very effective. Sometimes it's better to specialize than to try to do everything.

This is why I don't usually advise newbies to build well-rounded decks because it almost always backfires, and they take cards that they don't really need, making their deck weaker in the process. Good example of this is taking defensive cards when fighting AI3.

3# Carefully fine-tune the number of your Pillars

While I don't disagree with the title of this tip, there are exceptions.  Cards like Fahrenheit and Dissipation Field get better the more quantum you have stored up.  This goes back to picking a theme for your deck, but sometimes your extra quantum will be what actually kills your opponent.
Yes, those two cards are an exception. I tried to give a general outline of what kind of strategy to use, instead of explaining all the possible scenarios with different cards. But you are right I should probably mention those two.


4# Don't take too many cards

You also need to account for how many copies of each card you take, which I think is the determining factor in how large your deck ends up.  Do you really need 4 copies of FFQ or will 2 suffice?  Perhaps this could be it's own tip, but a lot of deckbuilding is deciding just how many of each card you really need to bring.
Yep. This is what the deck building is all about and I'm definitely adding it. This is actually the core of deck building, and the #2 most important thing after "what cards to take".


Thanks for your feedback and ideas.

I should finish this post asap.

Offline plastiqe

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Re: 10 Tips for Better Deck Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3329.msg34225#msg34225
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2010, 10:37:05 pm »
The updated first post is a nice improvement SG, just gotta think of something for #9.  Couple thoughts I had:

Since rule #8 is about rainbow decks #9 could be about building mono decks. 

Or it could be about building pvp decks cause I see a lot of new players that join the pvp league asking for deck tips. 

Other things that you could expand on are the CCG concepts of metagame, card advantage and tempo.  Maybe just title rule #9 as Advanced Topics and provide a definition for each.

Grammar in #7... Matches in Elements are very often decided by speed.

918273645

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Re: 10 Tips for Better Deck Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3329.msg34282#msg34282
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2010, 12:59:11 am »
Good tips! I notice the T50s revolve around these! But there is one thing... Where is #9?  ???

TheMadEvil

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Re: 10 Tips for Better Deck Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3329.msg36098#msg36098
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2010, 02:40:14 pm »
not sure if this matters to anyone, but the hardest problem i have with building a deck here is the min/max - 30 cards is not a lot at all, it means you actually have at most 20 cards after quanta producers...this is very different from all other games i've played, which have a min of 50-60 cards, giving you much more leeway to include multiple copies. For example, MtG has a 60 card min, with a 4 copy max, as opposed to Elements's 30 card min, 6 copy max. 30 cards with 6 per means after 3 cards and pillars, you've pretty much hit 30 cards. This is a very hard concept to get over a lot of the time, and will only get worse when more cards are introduced.
just a thought, maybe making a note of how many of each card to use vs. how many types of cards (i know you list how many of each type - support, main, etc. - but how do i know which cards to cut and so on)
don't hate me if this is actually covered already, i might have misread or missed that section

Kameda

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Re: 10 Tips for Better Deck Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3329.msg36102#msg36102
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2010, 02:57:42 pm »
Well, the mana in MtG don't stay there until you use it. It actually hurts you if you don't use until the final of your turn.

Ashebrethafe

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Re: 10 Tips for Better Deck Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3329.msg36137#msg36137
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2010, 04:10:44 pm »
Well, the mana in MtG don't stay there until you use it.
Unless there's an Upwelling in play, which removes this rule, or you control Omnath, Locus of Mana (only preserves green mana, but that mana makes it bigger). Also, MtG limits you to playing only one land per turn, unlike Elements' pillars (but again, certain cards can relax or eliminate this constraint for you).
Quote
It actually hurts you if you don't use until the final of your turn.
If you're talking about mana burn, it's been eliminated now. The mana just disappears without causing damage. (Yes, this makes some cards better and others worse. No cards received errata to preserve the way they worked with mana burn.)

Kameda

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Re: 10 Tips for Better Deck Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3329.msg36140#msg36140
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2010, 04:24:11 pm »
Wow o.o it's really been a long time since I stoped playing Magic o.o
Things have changed.

Daneman

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Re: 10 Tips for Better Deck Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3329.msg48285#msg48285
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2010, 12:48:21 pm »
what happened to tip nine?

Indivation

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Re: 10 Tips for Better Deck Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3329.msg49166#msg49166
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2010, 06:59:14 am »
Hmm... I'm bad at building decks... Thanks for the help!

fung

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Re: 10 Tips for Better Deck Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3329.msg49212#msg49212
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2010, 12:22:13 pm »
before reading this post, I never realised deck building is so hard

This is very helpful, thanks alot Scarygirl

 

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