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Offline PellaTopic starter

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Re: Unstable Fireflies [trio][Air][Fire][Life][AI3][unupped][newbie] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46692.msg1040636#msg1040636
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2013, 02:19:55 am »
First 20 Trials - Chapuz's suggested revision
record: 9-11
win rate: 45%
avg TTW: 10
avg TTL: 10

Initial Observations
1) Deck suffers from serious lack of CC.  The only CC in the revision is the UGs, and that's only 1HP each time.  For all intents and purposes, this has no CC.
2) The OEs in the original deck not only provided additional CC, but also dealt additional damage.  This was especially useful when the opponent played Sundial.  The OE-less deck misses out on this additional damage, too.
3) Playing UGs often suffers a serious delay.  This is for at least two reasons.  First, as I suspected, reducing the number of cards that can produce :fire from 4 to 2 means that if both cards are in the bottom half of the deck, you never get a chance to play any UGs at all before you die.  Second, generating :fire now requires 2 cards instead of 1.  A couple of times, I got both Immos in my initial draw, along with several UGs and FFQs.  I had nothing to immolate, so my two :fire cards just sat in my hand, useless, until I died.  If I did manage to draw a niblet to immolate, it was too late to make a difference because of the damage already dealt by the opponent.  Also, without knowing how far down in the deck to expect a niblet, I have no idea whether to continue to put my UGs in the field so they'll be ready (making them subject to PC) or to go ahead and play my FFQs just to deal SOME damage.
4) My original deck produced a win rate during the first 20 trials that was very different from the deck's true win rate.  Therefore, to be fair, I will continue my trials of Chapuz's deck to 100 to get a better estimate of how often we can expect it to win.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 02:22:51 am by Pella »
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Offline PellaTopic starter

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Re: Unstable Fireflies [trio][Air][Fire][Life][AI3][unupped][newbie] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46692.msg1040680#msg1040680
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2013, 07:40:53 am »
First 50 Trials with suggested mods
record: 19-31
win rate 38%
avg TTW: 11
fastest win: 9
slowest win: 16
avg TTL: 11
fastest loss: 8
slowest loss: 18

losses: 31
losses due to no Immolation card being drawn before death: 10
losses due to Immolation card being drawn too late to be useful:  3
total losses due to lack of..: 42% of all losses ... Now, THAT'S frustrating!

I apologize, Chapuz.  Fifty trials is all I can do.  I know you're a good deck builder because I see your stuff all over the forums.  The theory on this deck seemed okay, but the practical is not.  As bad as it sounds to say it--and I'm honestly not trying to be mean--the deck with the proposed changes just isn't fun to play.

I'm going to go back to my original deck and tweak it.  It, too, suffers from slow quanta production.  I'll try eliminating the Thunderstorms and replacing them with more quanta producers.  The OE still gives the deck some CC, so maybe that will be enough to increase its win rate to an acceptable level.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 07:43:38 am by Pella »
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Offline PellaTopic starter

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Re: Unstable Fireflies [trio][Air][Fire][Life][AI3][unupped][newbie] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46692.msg1041576#msg1041576
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2013, 08:23:02 pm »
Okay, I made some simple mods to speed up the quanta production.
Spoiler for Unstable Fireflies v2:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5og 5og 5oj 5oj 5oj 5ol 5ol 5om 5om 5om 5om 5om 8pr
100 Trials
record: 73-27
win rate: 73%
avg TTW: 12 (fastest: 8, slowest: 19)
avg TTL: 12 (fastest: 8, slowest: 17)

I modified my game play a bit, too.  I put UG, OE, and FS on equal footing for play priority.  I also allowed myself to adapt to my opponent.  If he had no creatures on the field, I delayed detonating the UGs unless I feared aggressive PC.  This allowed me to get the OE in play to deal the 5 dmg per turn, plus have it in place to attack individual creatures as the opponent played them.

Scarabs still pose a problem for this deck.  In addition, Steam Machines give the deck almost no chance to survive, especially if the opponent gets two of them on the field.  By the time you take out one of them, the second one is so big that spending two turns to take it out with OE is too long to prevent your death.

The win rate improved by over the original version.  While I'm happy that it improved, 5% is not the improvement I hoped to see.
Chapuz, as you stated earlier, the :life production still is too slow to be useful sometimes.  I often have too much :fire left over, though, so maybe if I went with 4 Fire Pends and 6 Life Pends, that would help.

Average TTW of 12 is a bit slow.  It can't counter a rush deck without a really good draw.  It has no real stall techniques, unless you count detonating 2 or 3 UGs simultaneously as a stall, in that it eliminates the opponents smaller creatures and forces him to play more before he returns to the same level.

This is my first deck that I've posted in the forums.  While the idea probably isn't original, I found nothing else like it posted.  Any other ideas for improvement are welcome.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 08:29:53 pm by Pella »
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Offline TribalTrouble

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Re: Unstable Fireflies [trio][Air][Fire][Life][AI3][unupped][newbie] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46692.msg1049109#msg1049109
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2013, 01:34:19 pm »
This even works in unupped PvP duels! I tried it vs Afdarenty 2 and won quite easily. Hard counters water. :]

Offline PellaTopic starter

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Re: Unstable Fireflies [trio][Air][Fire][Life][AI3][unupped][newbie] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46692.msg1049143#msg1049143
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2013, 04:34:22 pm »
Thanks, TT.  I've used it in PvP1, myself.  In my experience, the PvP winrate is about 50%.

The current version I'm using has:
-1 Fire Pend
+1 Life Pend
-1 UG
+1 FFQ

I've tried different scenarios to increase :air production, like substituting pillars for some or all of the shields and weapons, but even then the deck isn't fast enough to rush, so it needs some defences.
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anything
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