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Offline laxnut90Topic starter

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Re: The Greatest Defense [Against Plat] [Work in Progress] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52370.msg1110025#msg1110025
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2013, 04:49:42 pm »
I have tried to incorporate some of the suggestions and came up with this deck:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
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744 744 744 744 744 744 74b 74b 74b 74d 74d 752 752 752 7gq 7hi 7hi 7hi 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7k0 7k0 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 8pp


The mirror shield protects from spell damage.  The Sundials and SoFo protect from Mono Air.  The Purify protects from poison.  The Otyughs protect from smaller momentum creatures (flying Titans may still be problematic).

Are there any suggestions to improve this deck?

Update:  I just found out the hard way that Mirror Shield does not protect against Nightmare.  I may need to add a Sanctuary to this deck.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 05:11:15 pm by laxnut90 »
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Offline CrockettRocket

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Re: The Greatest Defense [Against Plat] [Work in Progress] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52370.msg1110129#msg1110129
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2013, 12:40:07 am »
Well, lets look at your newest version. It has 30 cards and few damage. Does that seem like disaster to you? A deck with such little damage has a very hard time killing and will probably take around 16 turns, by then your opponent can counter. You want a high defense and be able to kill in like 10 turns otherwise you might as well OTK, cause there are decks that are 8 turn OTK's! It also has only 8 creatures so sop wont be too effective most of the time and only give +8 damage a turn. I suggest any card with growth. Or making it a deck out deck.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 12:41:40 am by BrandenC6 »
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Offline Keeps

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Re: The Greatest Defense [Against Plat] [Work in Progress] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52370.msg1110150#msg1110150
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2013, 02:46:45 am »
As you pointed out you would need a Sanct for your plans.

as Branden pointed out you are unable to damage your opponent by much.

Do you see the challenge of the perfect defense...  as I first posted, I tried, but found them fragile, they are actually more for fun decks than anything practical.  You need so many cards to make the defense, you can't draw them fast enough and get enough quanta on the board, and play then, and not deck out, and yet deal a ton of damage without them being very fragile.

Here let's step through it, first to begin protection from all other forms but fixed damage you need the following cards:

Spoiler for Hidden:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
77i 77i 77i 7ak 7gq 7k6 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q8 8pp

Other than forced deckout by a bravery, this blocks deckout, spell damage, poison damage, and deck/denial effects outside of silence which is a single turn.
Technically to protect against silence and bravery you would need 3x animate weapons and 3x more eternities, and 3x quints, but let's not assume the extreme version because this is a bit more practical. 

Now there are only a few ways to block against damage left, and really you aren't going to do it, so you need someway to heal.  SoSa is powerful but as pointed out ruined by a purify.  The only way to heal 99+ damage a turn is with feral bonds, but they won't protect against otk, and you can't protect them all.  So the only viable option here, is using:

Spoiler for Hidden:
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7k2 7km 7km 7km 7km 7km 7km 8pp

So condensing a bit for mana, you end up with this to start:

Spoiler for Hidden:
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77i 77i 77i 7gq 7k0 7k2 7k6 7km 7km 7km 7km 7km 7km 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q8 8pq

But as you can see we are only buying around 382 damage, recover, without more miracles, so we will need to toss a couple more in, plus the ability to fuel and protect the fuel.  Need a reversable creature, now a bit of bow power can fuel the others so let's toss that in:

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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 77i 77i 77i 77i 7gq 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jp 7k0 7k2 7k6 7km 7km 7km 7km 7km 7km 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q8 8pq

Yea, we can defend perfectly now.  it only takes 32 cards...  oh...  and we haven't gotten to damage yet....   If you are to survive to get 32 cards, now you need draw ability...


Ah draw ability makes the shift more light time, and 4 novas won't cut it, it also means it's less likely i'll cut the miracles for less demand which means I'll have to eat feral bonds or something else later...   but now we have something like this:

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5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 77i 77i 77i 7gq 7gq 7gq 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jp 7k0 7k6 7km 7km 7km 7km 7km 7km 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q8 8pq

Now we need to replace mass heal and a way to do damage too...  we are going to need to do something that protects against CC so quints will be needed, also a way to produce a lot of creatures, also something that will have have CC too since we won't have miracles.

We have just enough room for the queen's mutation deck core cards

Spoiler for Hidden:
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52n 52n 5oj 5oj 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u6 6u6 74b 74b 77i 77i 77i 7am 7am 7am 7gq 7gq 7gq 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jp 7k0 7k6 7km 7km 7km 7km 7km 7km 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q8 80h 80h 80h 8pq

So a 60 card deck...  that is fragile and slow and not good at all...





« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 02:28:02 pm by inthisroom »

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Re: The Greatest Defense [Against Plat] [Work in Progress] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52370.msg1110153#msg1110153
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2013, 02:59:07 am »
The only problem in just splashing in 6 bravery and changing to fire mark besides the lower HP gain from divinity (which wouldnt matter too much) is youd need to get rid of sanct which can leave your defense open a tiny crack  :-\ Or just add in more stallish cards that way ppl with more then 30 cards in there deck just crush you. Or DAMAGE would suit the bill. Idc if you add 2 quint 1 gravitation fire master and 1 brimstone eater. I'd change like 6 light towers to quantum towers though. The light mark hould fuel you divinities which should fuel you turns.
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Re: The Greatest Defense [Against Plat] [Work in Progress] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52370.msg1110158#msg1110158
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2013, 04:01:12 am »
"youd need to get rid of sancta"

http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/Sanctuary

"Your quanta pool and your hand can not be altered during your opponent's turn. Heal 4 HP per turn."

I don't see the problem.

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Re: The Greatest Defense [Against Plat] [Work in Progress] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52370.msg1110180#msg1110180
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2013, 05:00:08 am »
As many disappointed newbies have been told, "there is no perfect deck". That being said, the whole point of elements is to try and find one. So I'll give you my thoughts on the subject.

Things you will face a lot of:
Discords/Black holes/quanta denial
Heavy PC denial
Heavy CC denial
SoSac
Poison
Stalls/deckouts
Rushes
SoFree

Given these, the best counter I could make would be Sancs, RoL, Hope, SoPa, Purify (+PA if you can balance the quanta)

With some luck, you can protect your quanta and hand, perform an OTK on mass healing and stall, not heal with SoSac, protect yourself from non-momentum and non-spell damage, purify yourself against poison or your opponent if they have SoSac, outlast late heavy CC damage and some early CC damage.

This is my best thought on the matter, or else just go for a load of Sancs, SoGs, CC, Purifies and protected eternity and out-stall them all.
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Re: The Greatest Defense [Against Plat] [Work in Progress] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52370.msg1110211#msg1110211
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2013, 11:48:03 am »
Other than forced deckout by a bravery, this blocks deckout, spell damage, poison damage, and deck/denial effects outside of silence which is a single turn.
Technically to protect against silence and bravery you would need 3x animate weapons and 3x more eternities, and 3x quints, but let's not assume the extreme version because this is a bit more practical. 
Sanctuary block against both Bravery and  Silence.
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Re: The Greatest Defense [Against Plat] [Work in Progress] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52370.msg1110213#msg1110213
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2013, 12:54:45 pm »
As many disappointed newbies have been told, "there is no perfect deck". That being said, the whole point of elements is to try and find one. So I'll give you my thoughts on the subject.

Things you will face a lot of:
Discords/Black holes/quanta denial
Heavy PC denial
Heavy CC denial
SoSac
Poison
Stalls/deckouts
Rushes
SoFree

Given these, the best counter I could make would be Sancs, RoL, Hope, SoPa, Purify (+PA if you can balance the quanta)

With some luck, you can protect your quanta and hand, perform an OTK on mass healing and stall, not heal with SoSac, protect yourself from non-momentum and non-spell damage, purify yourself against poison or your opponent if they have SoSac, outlast late heavy CC damage and some early CC damage.

This is my best thought on the matter, or else just go for a load of Sancs, SoGs, CC, Purifies and protected eternity and out-stall them all.

There is also spell damage, quanta denial + PC (aka SoFo spam) makes Sancts useless unless you put PA, Antimatter is also annoying, etc.

The problem is that there are so many things to counter that you can't do them all reliably at the same time.
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Re: The Greatest Defense [Against Plat] [Work in Progress] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52370.msg1110225#msg1110225
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2013, 01:20:03 pm »
I believe it would be crashed xd
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Offline laxnut90Topic starter

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Re: The Greatest Defense [Against Plat] [Work in Progress] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52370.msg1110228#msg1110228
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2013, 01:45:28 pm »
Spoiler for Hidden:
As many disappointed newbies have been told, "there is no perfect deck". That being said, the whole point of elements is to try and find one. So I'll give you my thoughts on the subject.

Things you will face a lot of:
Discords/Black holes/quanta denial
Heavy PC denial
Heavy CC denial
SoSac
Poison
Stalls/deckouts
Rushes
SoFree

Given these, the best counter I could make would be Sancs, RoL, Hope, SoPa, Purify (+PA if you can balance the quanta)

With some luck, you can protect your quanta and hand, perform an OTK on mass healing and stall, not heal with SoSac, protect yourself from non-momentum and non-spell damage, purify yourself against poison or your opponent if they have SoSac, outlast late heavy CC damage and some early CC damage.

This is my best thought on the matter, or else just go for a load of Sancs, SoGs, CC, Purifies and protected eternity and out-stall them all.

LOL. It seems like whenever I try to create a new deck, this one always pulls me back:

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/trio-quartet/refraction-index-(aether)-(water)-(light)-(pvp2)-(plat)-(1-32)/msg1037736/#msg1037736

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Offline CrockettRocket

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Re: The Greatest Defense [Against Plat] [Work in Progress] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52370.msg1110279#msg1110279
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2013, 09:10:53 pm »
Ive been doing a lot of testing on this, I find that even without draw power a 60 card deck can be fine just by having a lot of copies of key cards. Like 6x enchant artifact. I dont find eternity a key card, just to prevent your self from decking out if you use braveries which is a really good combo as they cant bravery you back because you have sanct. And protect your first sanct. Will usually give you a great advanatage. Using 4x cloaks can be very annoying to opponents as well as they first have to destroy the claok or waste a steal on it just to steal your sanctuary and somewhat hard countering you. I find it doesnt need damage if you just make it full out stall. Having 3 or 4x shields also works well. I was using 1 dusk 1 imrpoved fog and 1 thorn carapace. The HOPEFUL order they come is fog, carapace, dusk. Carapace first if you have the quantum. I was also using no creature control other then eternity and shields. Just mass healing. Which miracles were a big help there.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 09:37:35 pm by BrandenC6 »
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Thanks to skotadi for saying this in chat. Made me laugh pretty hard, and fits with me not getting drafted. :silly:

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Re: The Greatest Defense [Against Plat] [Work in Progress] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52370.msg1110317#msg1110317
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2013, 12:28:09 am »
Spoiler for Hidden:
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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 77i 77i 77i 77i 7gq 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jo 7jp 7k0 7k2 7k6 7km 7km 7km 7km 7km 7km 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q8 8pq

Yea, we can defend perfectly now.  it only takes 32 cards
A deck with a perfect defense that has more than 30 cards you say? Perfect for PVP! (If it wasnt for the unreliable draws and you wouldnt need to rewind the opponents creatures; damn)
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