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Offline kimham8a

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Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1010245#msg1010245
« Reply #120 on: October 24, 2012, 03:06:36 am »
Wow then a deck based on sosa, eternity and photon, forest spectre, and quintessence could get a 99.9% winrate against fg's according to the simulator.  :o

I don't think so. Beside the fact that that deck would need five elements ( :time:life:water:aether:earth) -  :earth because you need to PA your eternity and I think also time towers - which it's kind of complicated to do, quanta denial decks such as Decay and Dark Matter won't let you bounce your photon back indefinitely (probably you can't even start to do it). Discord could be a problem too. Unless you can put a Sanctuary in, but well that would be the 6th element and can you play it in time? It'd be better to try to deck out the FG but there are still problems with it. With Decay you need a protected Sanctuary very soon and I don't think you'll be able to do it.

And we're obviously playing it conscious of that SoSac trick. The AI is unaware of that and it will keep playing SoSac losing all its quanta. ^^

Lol clearly I mean a rainbow deck. Quanta denial won't matter at all because decay can be overpowered with just 8 QT and Dark Matter doesn't have enough Black Holes to drain you until you deck out. Sosa wont be a problem for deckout because obviously it won't draw sosac if your busy bouncing a photon.  :)
No FG could beat it, seriously.
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Offline Reid4891

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Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1010307#msg1010307
« Reply #121 on: October 24, 2012, 12:01:13 pm »
Lol clearly I mean a rainbow deck. Quanta denial won't matter at all because decay can be overpowered with just 8 QT and Dark Matter doesn't have enough Black Holes to drain you until you deck out. Sosa wont be a problem for deckout because obviously it won't draw sosac if your busy bouncing a photon.  :)
No FG could beat it, seriously.

Yeah, because with 4 Gravity Nymphs there aren't enough Black Holes to drain your unbeatable deck. Sure, as you wish.  8)

And Scorpio won't ever draw a Purify in the middle of the game when it has 60+ damage on the field, kicking you above 40 health and making you unable to play another SoSac.

Decay can play up to 24 pests (there is fractal). You can't overpower it with only 8QT and you need at least 3  :time quanta every turn to bounce your photon. With 8QT you get an average of 2  :rainbow quanta for element. So good luck with that. And I'm assuming you had PA on QT otherwise it can steal them.

And since we're talking about hypothetical scenarios, I can also say that hypothetically speaking if Jezebel get a Entropy Nymph it can antimatter all its creatures and damage you.

Offline kimham8a

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Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1010623#msg1010623
« Reply #122 on: October 25, 2012, 06:27:37 pm »
Lol clearly I mean a rainbow deck. Quanta denial won't matter at all because decay can be overpowered with just 8 QT and Dark Matter doesn't have enough Black Holes to drain you until you deck out. Sosa wont be a problem for deckout because obviously it won't draw sosac if your busy bouncing a photon.  :)
No FG could beat it, seriously.

Yeah, because with 4 Gravity Nymphs there aren't enough Black Holes to drain your unbeatable deck. Sure, as you wish.  8)

And Scorpio won't ever draw a Purify in the middle of the game when it has 60+ damage on the field, kicking you above 40 health and making you unable to play another SoSac.

Decay can play up to 24 pests (there is fractal). You can't overpower it with only 8QT and you need at least 3  :time quanta every turn to bounce your photon. With 8QT you get an average of 2  :rainbow quanta for element. So good luck with that. And I'm assuming you had PA on QT otherwise it can steal them.

And since we're talking about hypothetical scenarios, I can also say that hypothetically speaking if Jezebel get a Entropy Nymph it can antimatter all its creatures and damage you.
Hmmm... Ok, maybe you're right. I'll try to test it on the simulator and see if I can 99%.

Edit: Dang it, I can't use the simulator for some reason, keeps doing nothing and IE says error on page. Can someone test this?
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Deck import code : [Select]
5lg 5lg 5lg 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rt 6rt 6rt 6rt 6rt 6rt 77i 77i 77i 77i 77i 77i 7ah 7ah 7ah 7ah 7k6 7k6 7k6 7q8 7q8 80h 80h 8ps
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 06:44:15 pm by kimham8a »
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Offline Luminous

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Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1010646#msg1010646
« Reply #123 on: October 25, 2012, 08:31:20 pm »
And yep, sancs heal with damaging you.
Also, it'd be toooooooooo slow to farm some electrum.
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Offline Reid4891

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Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1010654#msg1010654
« Reply #124 on: October 25, 2012, 09:15:24 pm »
Edit: Dang it, I can't use the simulator for some reason, keeps doing nothing and IE says error on page. Can someone test this?
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5lg 5lg 5lg 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rt 6rt 6rt 6rt 6rt 6rt 77i 77i 77i 77i 77i 77i 7ah 7ah 7ah 7ah 7k6 7k6 7k6 7q8 7q8 80h 80h 8ps


Player
Wins: 232
Winrate: 46.774193548387096 %
Average TTW: 26.939655172413794
EMs: 109
EM rate: 46.98275862068966 %

Computer
Wins: 264
Winrate: 53.225806451612904 %
Average TTW: 17.541666666666668
EMs: 50
EM rate: 18.939393939393938 %

I tried on 100 games multiple times, the win rate range is about between 41% and 54%.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 09:18:56 pm by Reid4891 »

Offline kimham8a

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Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1010672#msg1010672
« Reply #125 on: October 26, 2012, 12:43:58 am »
And yep, sancs heal with damaging you.
Also, it'd be toooooooooo slow to farm some electrum.
Also sosac wouldn't last forever in real game.  :P
Edit: Dang it, I can't use the simulator for some reason, keeps doing nothing and IE says error on page. Can someone test this?
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5lg 5lg 5lg 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rt 6rt 6rt 6rt 6rt 6rt 77i 77i 77i 77i 77i 77i 7ah 7ah 7ah 7ah 7k6 7k6 7k6 7q8 7q8 80h 80h 8ps

Player
Wins: 232
Winrate: 46.774193548387096 %
Average TTW: 26.939655172413794
EMs: 109
EM rate: 46.98275862068966 %

Computer
Wins: 264
Winrate: 53.225806451612904 %
Average TTW: 17.541666666666668
EMs: 50
EM rate: 18.939393939393938 %

I tried on 100 games multiple times, the win rate range is about between 41% and 54%.
Aw, that's too bad. Will do heavy deck building/testing as soon as I can use the simulator. (I think I need to use Google Chrome, which I also can't download for some reason.)
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Offline Reid4891

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Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1011001#msg1011001
« Reply #126 on: October 27, 2012, 03:45:37 pm »
Oh math, so much I love you.


Offline Reid4891

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Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1011885#msg1011885
« Reply #127 on: October 30, 2012, 07:19:48 pm »


Ok, here it is. After Instosis I did the same study for PoisonDial: 60,60% after 500 (loooooong) games.
IMPORTANT TIP: if you're worried about deckout, here's a trick: after you pass the turn (so with the damage calculated) take the enemy HP left and divide it by the number of cards you still have to draw. The result is how much damage for turn you need to do to kill it before deckout. If it's lower than the poison counter, you're pretty much safe. If it's 1-2 points higher, you should still be ok (drawing a deadly poison gives you a +3). If it's a lot higher, I suggest not to draw from sundials (but it depends on the opponent). Just remember to do the calculation midgame when you pull out at least 9 poison otherwise it's pretty useless. Obviously it can't apply for FG with healing, but you're pretty much screwed against them so whatever.


VERY EASY (>80%)
Destiny -> First three FGs aren't a problem. You can only lose with an almost impossible bad hand.
Lionheart -> ''
Neptune ->  ''
Gemini -> only look out for its  :aether. Don't let your guard down in the middle game, always play a SoSac or a Sundial even if you're full health otwerise a massive Twin Universe can bring you down below 40 HP.
Serket -> In middle game don't chain SoSac, instead alternate SoSac and Sundials when at full health (since if you run out of SoSac you can't chain more than 1 Sundials otherwise its high poison damage could kick you below 40 HP).
Graviton -> Use the Sundials soon since later they can be targeted by Explosions. Keep one of the two Arsenic for when you clogged its hand by chaining SoSac so that it already waste Explosions on Towers.
Osiris -> If there is SoFo and a catapult play SoSac (if it has enough  :gravity). It's gonna destroy a tower/arsenic and catapult it anyway.
Akebono -> Similar to Osiris.
Paradox -> Many RoL: draw only a little from Sundials so that you can outrun 1 miracle. Only 1 RoL: try to speed up with Sundials and then chain SoSac in order to avoid it having enough  :light to play Miracle. Remember that Paradox will keep playing cards such as Improved Blessing even during SoSac wasting precious  :light for playing Miracle.


FAIRLY EASY (80%-60%)
Chaos Lord -> don't draw much (Dissipation Field blocks Arsenic). The mayor issue is Discord anyway, if out early can really slow you down too much.
Scorpio -> DON'T chain SoSac since it can purify you. I prefer to rush in order to avoid letting it draw too many card (and so Purify) instead of slowing the match down.
Dark Matter -> The main problem is not having enough tower in the case a Nymph is out or massive BH.
Eternal Phoenix -> Draw as fast as you can.
Seism -> Play only 1 tower to make it waste QS (especially if you don't have enough Poisons to play anyway).
Obliterator -> Play fast. When Obliterator is out, 2 Sundials at time.
Morte -> Go slow, but try to chain SoSac when there are 1-2 RoL if there is enough damage on the field. When you're 2 turns from winning, play Sundial instead of SoSac so that Morte will waste  :light on playing Archangels.
Hermes -> Play your sundials, draw and chain SoSac earlier in order to make it waste Explosions on tower. When it seems out of them, play Arsenic. Watch out for direct damage.


MEDIUM (60%-40%)
Rainbow -> Play fast with your Sundials. It's the most random God of the bunch so results may vary.
Dream Catcher -> ARRRRGGHHHH!!! I freaking hate it so much and it's the FG I met most! BE and Discord can be a lethal combo, usually (when I'm already in a bad mood) they come with 2 Pests and a Quicksand. Play fast and hope it doesn't happen. There isn't much you can do beside hoping your hand is decent and its bad.


HARD (40%-20%)
Fire Queen -> Play fast. Look closely at its  :air quanta. Start chaining SoSac when there is 1 queen out and it has at 5-6  :air (if it doesn't, it's difficult it can't play another queen next turn so it's safe to wait). If you have an early Arsenic and you're lucky that it can only draw 1 Feral Bond, they kind of nullify each other. Of course it's a very hard match anyway.
Stuff like this can happen, so counts the turn you need to win:
Spoiler for Hidden:
Decay -> Play fast with sundials because they'll become semi-useless to stall later on (Syphons). If it has enough Pests to bring your quanta to 0, then play 2 towers at a time.
Octane -> You can only hope for many EE and few/no UG at the start. Play fast.
Elidnis -> Play fast. This is hard because since it has Feral Bond, chain SoSac asap and pray (early Arsenic is a must).
Hecate -> Save Sundials if you can, try to chain SoSac asap (if there is only a 18 atk Doll, play it already).


PROHIBITIVE (<20%)
Jezebel -> Possibily there have been changes in 1.31. This is very hard because even if you chain SoSac Jezebel keeps playing its Nymph's tear, so sooner or later you're gonna face  :darkness or  :air or  :light or :gravity which are very dangerous. So the only option is play fast. Don't bother about the Vampire Dagger since it's gonna steal your Arsenic.
Divine Glory -> Play quite slow, hope you can fight through 1 Miracle or you can force it to discard them. It's a problem if there is few damage too.
Incarnate -> SoSac sooner but don't let the chain drop so consider spending 1 sundials to get an extra draw if you only have a couple of them when you need to start chaining. Try to limit Vampires to 1. Keep the sundials for the end so that it can't heal itself. It's gonna be hard.
Miracle -> In 1.31 I hardly doubt you can make it discard many Miracles. It seems to keep them. Your only chance is to have an early Arsenic and never draw with Sundials and make it through 3 Miracles :D, which is VERY hard and long.
Spoiler for Hidden:
Ferox -> I never won. What do you expect me to say about it?


I don't know what's its purpose, but if you appreciate my work and want to give me rep, I'll gladly accept it.  :P
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 12:02:10 pm by Reid4891 »

Offline eaglgenes101

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Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1012000#msg1012000
« Reply #128 on: October 31, 2012, 04:38:54 am »
^Where'd Hermes go?
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Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1012010#msg1012010
« Reply #129 on: October 31, 2012, 05:55:51 am »
^Where'd Hermes go?

From the % in the chart it looks like he would go under Fairly Easy. Still so weird to see hermes as fairly easy on any chart
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Offline Reid4891

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Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1012051#msg1012051
« Reply #130 on: October 31, 2012, 12:02:58 pm »
^Where'd Hermes go?

I added it, sorry I forgot (probably 'cause it and Morte having the same %).

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Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1012156#msg1012156
« Reply #131 on: November 01, 2012, 01:11:29 am »
Good work! 500 games is very impressive haha! I can imagine how frustrating it must be to try to win against those "prohibitive" gods when you know you have virtually no chance.

+rep

 

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