Poll

Who would be the best Master of Water?

majofa
11 (17.7%)
ddevans96
28 (45.2%)
Tiko
23 (37.1%)

Total Members Voted: 61

Voting closed: November 05, 2012, 01:50:52 pm

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Offline Calindu

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44404.msg1012221#msg1012221
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2012, 01:03:02 pm »
Cal: Please clarify your personal question to me - do you mean an alternative card water already has, or rather a card idea or concept?

Also clarify your second question. Do you want a rainbow using all elements water has direct synergy with, or all 12? Do you mean using as in having a card of, or do creatures with abilities count? Are non-pillar/pendulum cards for each element required?

Idea/concept
All the elements water has direct sinergy with, yes, creatures with abilities count, also rainbow as in using almost every element.
Can be upped/unupped too.
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Offline Rutarete

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44404.msg1012239#msg1012239
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2012, 03:00:47 pm »
Make a card idea based off salt-water  :) currently there's purify, --> pure water. What can dirty/salty water do? (Flooding has not been defined as pure water or other as far as I know)
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Offline Tiko

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44404.msg1012300#msg1012300
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2012, 08:35:24 pm »
Introduction:

I always had problems with introductions, and I don't really feel much need for it either - for the ones who don't know me: feel free to ask questions, or just visit my profile page on the Forums as many things are already explained there.

Apart from that, I'm a (relatively) long-time player here on Elements, and I believe I made my love for the element quite obvious since.

About Mastership and the Community:

I have joined this community when most of the Masters had clear dedication to their element, and were also respected for their knowledge about the game; not "just" a title that was won through an event. At least I felt it this way as a newbie. Furthermore, I always viewed Masters more than simply a General for their Warteam - they were more like of a representative of that element, and that was also somewhat expected from them before. To my observations, these features are tend to die out completely with recent "generation-shifts" on the Forums which also has a bad impact on the 'atmosphere' itself. I may be idealistic about all this, but that's my opinion.

That said, I'm not really fond of the state of the current community, this includes the overall maturity and level of intellect. While I understand it's far better than most parts of the internet, I dare to say Elements have seen better times. It is also a reason for me hesitating in becoming a Master once again.

This may have costed me some of your votes, but I felt I had to be honest.

Answers and Tasks:

I'd like to point out one thing first: I'm rejecting any request that is clearly 'trolling', makes little to no sense, or would harm the future Team Water in any way.

The reasoning for this is that this Phase is here mostly for people who haven't made up their minds yet about who they want to see as future Masters, not to drudge the participants.
For example: If me making a deck with a bunch of Floodings (without pointing out any dedicated opponents, rules or restrictions) makes you think I'm worthy for Mastership, well, that is sad. There's (almost) nothing that haven't been done before.

Thanks for your understanding.

Spoiler for RavingRabbid:
Quote
Would you prefer facing me or one of the other contestants in the final battle?
Three times a charm. I'd definitely prefer playing against you.

Spoiler for ARTHANASIOS:
Quote
create an original yet effective deck based on Flooding and having at least 3 copies of it (SoP isn't allowed).
Request denied. See the reasoning above.

Spoiler for mrpaper:
Quote
Create what do you think is the best way to build a deck around tridents (upped or not).
Request denied. See the reasoning above.

Spoiler for furballdn:
Quote
People constantly say that water is the most fluid element that ties everything together. I do not feel this way. Can you convince me?
No, I can't. Play extensively with Water for some time and judge it yourself.

Also your statement is somewhat out of place: it doesn't "tie everything together", it's just that it's way more easier to splash into/or incorporate other elements than others with various benefits as result (at least in game terms).

Quote
Should blue crawler be changed in any way?

No, it shouldn't. Any change would probably result in a cost change for the worst, and I would really like to see more vanilla creatures in the game. In addition, they're not that useless as most players see them, only that Toads are a much better option most of the time. See Graboids.

Spoiler for Laxadarap:
Quote
Water has the most forms of cc in the game.  If you had to remove one of these cc cards, which would it be? And what would you replace it with?
None. They all have their uses and situations where they can be used better than the others.

Quote
Build a deck using implicit synergy.

Request denied. See the reasoning above.

Spoiler for Bootsz:
Quote
Elements has been through a traumatic period.  We had a bunch of new shards and changes in a BIG update and then ... silence.  SG disappeared and Zanz took indefinite leave.  Our forums got rescued by some good people and chat got an upgrade (IMHO).  It has happened before, but never quite like this.

What should the community do?

I realise this is an impossible question, in many respects.  Perhaps "Nothing, carry on as we are" is a good answer.  Maybe you have some ideas.  I think the role of Master should involve more than just PvP.  Let me see what you have in terms of "community thinking"?

Thank you Bootsz for the first real question I have read in this Trials so far. It is also a real hard one to answer.

In one part I already stated my views on the community in the introduction. In my opinion, before we had a one-man-army, called Scaredgirl who not only maintained the Forums as a whole, but came up with ideas quite regularly that kept people interested and often proved to be a source of inspiration for further development - small (or sometimes great) things that 'pushed' everyone and everything forward. But today, not only that I can rarely see a 'groundbreaking' idea or suggestion popping up amongst the unread posts; but even if there's a few good or great ones, somehow noone has the willpower and/or motivation to actually make something (close as good) out of it.
The best example for this is WoE maybe: It was one of the most promising things that ever happened on the Forums since War, but now it is nothing more than maybe a sweet memory for the ones who participated in testing. Everyone who is anticipating the "Big Relaunch of WoE" does nothing to actually make it happen, but instead is waiting for someone else to get things started.

I think the very first step would be that people should realize that they themselves alone are not the next best thing that will happen to the community - as it isn't heading anywhere this way. Like you said, we should start to "think as a community" and get things that we want done ourselves, because noone else will do it for us. We definitely shouldn't "carry on" like this.

I hope my answer is somewhat satisfactory.

Spoiler for Acsabi44:
Quote
What deck archetype do you see as the biggest "problem deck" for water in war?
I shouldn't answer this for the reasons above, but I find it pretty self-explanatory and others have already stated it.

Anything that gains an upper hand based on Water's cost-effectiveness, especially unupgraded. Many cards need a form of upkeep (in/off-element, pillars) to remain useful while being overall expensive and maybe slow even to some standards. Mostly, things like cheap CC paired with excessive damage reduction or forms of denial can easily cripple Water-wardecks if come unexpected.

Spoiler for Calindu:
Quote
What Weapon you would like to see Water receiving instead of Trident?
Why would I want Trident to be gone? It is a fairly powerful weapon in the right matchup in the right time, no need to get rid of it. I wouldn't mind another set of elemental weapons, though: In that case, maybe something like an inverted Arsenic would come in mind with medium-high damage. Something similar, like Anarook's old Oceanus card idea.

Quote
Water can synergy well with almost every element, build a rainbow deck that uses those all, max deck size being 40 cards.
Request denied. See the reasoning above.

Spoiler for justaburd:
Quote
People have been using nymph tears and pillar/pends, but I don't really consider that to be a true duo or trio.
Would you kindly give me a trio without tears?
I would like this trio to be able to rush as well as have some stalling capability.
Also, you actually have to use cards of a given element for it to count. I.e. no pends and calling that part of the trio.
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Spoiler for Absol:
Quote
Water is the element of synergy, but what element has the least synergy with Water? Why?
Design a new card which increases this weakest synergy.
If I had to choose, I'd say Earth maybe. Many 'meeting points' between the elements are impractical or redundant. And as for the card design, no matter how hard I would try, I probably couldn't come up with anything better than eaglgenes' Sponge, which also covers a wide range of other solutions as well.

Spoiler for Rutarete:
Quote
Make a card idea based off salt-water  :) currently there's purify, --> pure water. What can dirty/salty water do? (Flooding has not been defined as pure water or other as far as I know)
Request denied. See the reasoning above.
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Offline ddevans96

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44404.msg1012352#msg1012352
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2012, 01:06:07 am »
Cal: Much appreciated, I feel I can give more appropriate answers now :] As a mid-range creature, I feel that Water needs a card to improve or reinforce a weaker synergy. A mud golem is one possibility, to enhance water/earth duos, and thus indirectly buff trident. However, this is difficult to do without having it grow, which is a problem because it would overlap with steam machine.

Something more appropriate would be a Great White, with a tracking or searching ability based off damage, or a Swordfish or Narwhal with low defense but higher attack. Both of these have been created in card idea form.



Absol: In my opinion, Water has the least synergy with Gravity. While it does have Freeze+Catapult, unupped, this is either ineffective with Armagio, or a trio with flying Titans. Upgraded, the latter does become a functional duo, but it is still slower than a standard rush and without the stall to overcome that gap.

I feel that the concept of a Waterfall is a great thematic bridge between the two, but how to implement it is unclear. A permanent idea has been done that gives momentum to a target water creature, but this seems slightly bland to me. More interesting would be a waterfall moving water creatures to other field slots, which can be combined with flooding to  move water creatures out of slots needed for non-water creatures without sacrificing damage.



Ruta: The first thing that comes to mind when I think of salt water is that it conducts electricity very well. I see the potential to enhance synergy with especially aether, but also air via thunderstorm, with a card that can douse select creatures in salt water and allow electricity-based effects to have a chain reaction and/or an increased effect.
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Offline Laxadarap

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44404.msg1012359#msg1012359
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2012, 01:36:06 am »
Cal: Much appreciated, I feel I can give more appropriate answers now :] As a mid-range creature, I feel that Water needs a card to improve or reinforce a weaker synergy. A mud golem is one possibility, to enhance water/earth duos, and thus indirectly buff trident. However, this is difficult to do without having it grow, which is a problem because it would overlap with steam machine.

Something more appropriate would be a Great White, with a tracking or searching ability based off damage, or a Swordfish or Narwhal with low defense but higher attack. Both of these have been created in card idea form.



Absol: In my opinion, Water has the least synergy with Gravity. While it does have Freeze+Catapult, unupped, this is either ineffective with Armagio, or a trio with flying Titans. Upgraded, the latter does become a functional duo, but it is still slower than a standard rush and without the stall to overcome that gap.

I feel that the concept of a Waterfall is a great thematic bridge between the two, but how to implement it is unclear. A permanent idea has been done that gives momentum to a target water creature, but this seems slightly bland to me. More interesting would be a waterfall moving water creatures to other field slots, which can be combined with flooding to  move water creatures out of slots needed for non-water creatures without sacrificing damage.



Ruta: The first thing that comes to mind when I think of salt water is that it conducts electricity very well. I see the potential to enhance synergy with especially aether, but also air via thunderstorm, with a card that can douse select creatures in salt water and allow electricity-based effects to have a chain reaction and/or an increased effect.

Suddenly novas with freeze, dials, aw, and titans :)
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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44404.msg1012361#msg1012361
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2012, 01:48:22 am »
Heh, indeed. But then it's not so much synergy with Gravity as it is Sundial being a good general stall card. Still, as a deck I definitely see it as more viable than the combination in a functional duo.
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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44404.msg1012428#msg1012428
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2012, 10:53:04 am »
Water has the most forms of cc in the game.  If you had to remove one of these cc cards, which would it be? And what would you replace it with?

Freeze is underused and for good reason, for the most part stopping one creature for 3 turns just isn't worth it.

However, the one I might change would be Mind Flayer... how about he can cause the opponent Amnesia as well? Yes, negate their weapon ability! That would be fun.

But.. but... bolt already does that. Isn't that too much?

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44404.msg1012519#msg1012519
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2012, 07:07:10 pm »
Which card associated with water (meaning not just water cards but also those with water abilities) do you think least represents water?
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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44404.msg1012523#msg1012523
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2012, 07:14:39 pm »
Which card associated with water (meaning not just water cards but also those with water abilities) do you think least represents water?
Mind Flayer, is it in water because it's blue? I mean they do live in moist caves.  :P

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44404.msg1012633#msg1012633
« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2012, 04:38:59 am »
Ruta: Trident. While it does maintain thematic ties between water and its ability's element, being the weapon of the god of the sea, and creating tsunamis with great destructive power, this thematic connection is not as strong as Physalia, Toadfish, Steammie, Spirit, or even Flayer, when you consider it's origin in Forgotten Realms.
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Offline majofa

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44404.msg1012891#msg1012891
« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2012, 07:01:22 am »
Vote for me for this reason and this reason only:

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44404.msg1013306#msg1013306
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2012, 02:38:43 pm »
Well in seeing those votes.... I'm gonna go ahead and remove myself from contention, since obviously very few people want me to be Water Master.

 

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