Poll

Who would be the best Master of Light?

Zblader
27 (50%)
mesaprotector
27 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 53

Voting closed: November 05, 2012, 01:48:12 pm

*Author

Offline RavingRabbidTopic starter

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Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44402.msg1011497#msg1011497
« on: October 29, 2012, 01:48:12 pm »
Phase 3 - Community Vote

Phase ends when above poll expires.

It's time to vote for your favorite Master candidate!  Every community member has one vote. You can change your vote at any time as long as there is still time on the clock.

Vote based on who you think would make the best Master of that element. Do not vote based on who is the best player or who you know personally. Try to pick someone who you think would help the community the most.  Feel free to ask the candidates difficult questions to help you make your decision.

For reference, here are the 6th Trials Standings (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,43965.0.html) and Phase 1 Submission (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,43688.0.html) threads.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 02:20:02 pm by RavingRabbid »
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Offline ZephyrPhantom

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44402.msg1011523#msg1011523
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2012, 02:43:34 pm »
Sit primum diem divini judicii
Let the divine judgement of the day begin

Dear Zblader and Mesaprotector, I have a very simple yet serious question; why Light and not another element?
Furthermore, can each of you find and post an interesting synergy between :light and each one of the other elements seperately (it doesn't need to be the whole deck, just post Light card A + Life card B for example, but explain why this combo/synergy is good)?
Thank you in advance! :)
Simple answer : Light's the element I started the game with. :)

Slightly Longer answer : Light fits well with my playstyle and way of thought - I'm someone who likes stall/healing-type decks and like to see the best emerge from the worst. Likewise, Light possesses a variety of cards that never directly interfere with an opponent's plan, but can heal off all damage while you get your own plans off the ground. Light is also an element of investment - cards like Miracle, Guardian Angel, and Crusader may look expensive/impractical/slow in comparison to other counterparts (Heal is cheaper, Frog is more damage efficient, most midhitters don't take 1 turn to fully deploy) but can be very powerful once given the quanta/upgrade/time to set up (Miracle can reverse a game, Archangel is a powerful midhitter, Crusader essentially becomes a more flexible weapon). Overall, I may have setbacks at first but I strive for the best end possible.
Spoiler for Combos (in progress):
:air - You've all probably heard of blitzed/blessed Wyrms, but what about Sky Blitzed Pegasi? A notable benefit of running an Airborne rush that splashes in Light's Dive creature is that it costs 1 less :air to maintain the double attack, which can be important when you're trying to maintain :air to pull off a Sky Blitz. (Add in Blessing, and you've got massive damage.)

:darkness - Heal thyself while smiting the enemy - I'd say that sounds very fitting of a deck that focuses on Vampire + Blessing or Liquid Shadow + Blessing deck; vampire offers you a creature to bless while Liquid Shadow can act as CC if you're missing the creature/blessing part of the combo.

:earth - Blessed Warden is a strategy that can be an effective control against 'grounded' creatures - if [airborne] push comes to shove, you have all of Earth and Light's stalling power to back it up.

:gravity - Blessing + Gravity Shield. Sure, I can bless my own Archangels and Chargers to make them bigger. Sure, I can also make sure your creautres never hit me to begin with. (If your opponent tries to CC their own creatures, heal them back up with Angels.)

:time - Deja Vu + Luceferin - Deja Vu is a cheap creature that can quickly hit the field and Luceferin is a cheap heal spell that can turn a duplicated Deja into two RoLs. Makes for a great quanta-producing engine as well as one of the more innovative ways to power Hope.

Unupped angel is UU.  How could this be fixed? (Via a slight change, and don't make it OP).

Holy light: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,39386.0.html  Which buff and why?
Guardian Angel is UU IMHO due to a lack of offensive power (Archangel is a solid attacker and Rage Potion tends to be used in conjunction with Angel to give it the needed attack power).
By extension raising Guardian Angels' ATK would result in increased use of Guardian Angel.

However raising Angel's attack power directly could result in conflicts with already existing creatures. (Crawler is -technically- balanced, but the meta is always rated by the strongest counterpart of a card [Frog].  while quanta cost seems to be losing value a bit I don't believe it is right to powercreep Angel either.)

I would change unupped angel's Heal to give +1|+0 if it targets itself - this allows Angel to grow over time and eventually build itself up to the level of it's upped counterpart and makes much more viable in a :light stall when you have excess quantum since you can grow it into a large attacker. This way, it fits with Light's stalling style while remaining slower than cards like Crawler or Frog, but can be a powerful 'growth' creature in the right decks.

Of all the effects listed on Holy Light thread, I would go for giving the targeted creature Divine Shield (immunity to next effect or attack).  This forces an opponent to either waste an extra card to disable the protected card or ignore it entirely, and forces him to think a bit since he has a choice to negate the effect.

Regarding the other suggested effects:
Curing status effects has been done before but is too narrow a buff to make Holy Light viable IMHO - I would rather 'replace' a Frozen/Delayed creature with another creature than draw a Holy Light as a dead card. (Purify is a better answer to Poison)
Cheaper Sanctuary is a redundant effect and would only used to stall a Discord/pest/BH deck for a few turns (Ideally Discord/Pest/BH should retain a speed advantage to compensate for Sanctuary's ability to hard counter them).
% chance to miss seemed viable but Sundial would probably overshadow it.
'Healbolt' was also close to viable but Light already has early game healing (Sanctuary/Luci), late game healing (Miracle), and out-of-element healing support (SoDivinity). (In other words : Light potentially has healing options for the whole game and even in decks that do not fully use light.)


Will you be the general when war comes about, ZBlader?
It ultimately depends on how my schedule decides to roll its dice. I'm definitely willing to be General, as Light could use a victory under it's belt.

Z: How high is your estimated PvP skill? And if you do become Master of Light, will you improve it? (since, you know, we usually see you around CI&A board)
I've got a good hold of deckbuilding and finetuning overall and can hold pretty well against other players - my biggest issues tend to be predicting decks and establishing a solid balance between card copies/quanta base (I generally am a victim of bad draws and tend to add extra quanta sources/key cards as a result.)

I also know my cards well and judge carefully during a match.

If I do become Master of Light, I'd probably not only strive to improve my PvP skills (especially in regards to deckbuilding) but take a much more competitive view of Elements.

Quote from: mrpaper
Do you think holy light is a war worthy card? Explain and give an example is the answer is yes.
Yes, but its use is somewhat limited. Putting a few in the Vault as extra CC is possible and it can wreck a Darkness/Death player if used properly, but there may be matchups where Luceferin may be more practical instead. There's also the possibility of Voodoo Dolls (and if you lack Angels/Blessing it could be used in decks involving Armagio/Acceleration).

Quote from: Rutarete
Do you think any other cards in game would fit mechanically/thematically more into light than its current element? Which and why? Should those cards be replaced in that element if they were moved to light?
No, because most of the cards you can elementshift to Light either already build on something it does excellently (e.g. Elementshifting Heal isn't practical when Light has so much healing to begin with) or are subpar in fixing what Light needs (Elementshifted Seraph is possible, but it clashes with most Light Creatures themewise and conflicts with Archangel's niche.).
The following cards do come pretty close, though:
Antimatter - I could see this card as something along of the lines of a 'Pacifism'-type effect. (Thematically Antimatter + Matter = Annhilation) IMHO, Light needs to divert a bit from healing/change its existing healing cards first.
Purify - Purity is a quality highly encouraged by more idealistic ways of thought and the regeneration fits into Light. (Light also has a known history of hate against Death.)
Seraph - You could invert the elements for Seraph to change it into a Light midhitter (which it could use unupped, but I think that should be solved differently - elementshifting Seraph brings it in conflict with Archangel upped), but I think Zanz wanted to place emphasis on the Fire motif of the Seraph being the 'Burning One' of the angelic hierarchy.  (As a sidenote : Angels =/= Automatic Light alignment.  Angels have been known to preside over other elements such as Death.)
Shard of Divinity - Could be changed into a monohealing card that replaces Holy Light in its current state. Is an Other type card aligned/mutable to Light rather than directly encompassing Light itself, and elementshifting it into a 3 :light card (where it would probably land) draws it too close close to Heal.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 03:23:18 pm by Zblader »

Offline ARTHANASIOS

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44402.msg1011569#msg1011569
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2012, 05:26:25 pm »
Dear Zblader and Mesaprotector, I have a very simple yet serious question; why Light and not another element?
Furthermore, can each of you find and post an interesting synergy between :light and each one of the other elements seperately (it doesn't need to be the whole deck, just post Light card A + Life card B for example, but explain why this combo/synergy is good)?
Thank you in advance! :)
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Offline mesaprotector

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44402.msg1011607#msg1011607
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2012, 07:38:51 pm »
Dear Zblader and Mesaprotector, I have a very simple yet serious question; why Light and not another element?
Furthermore, can each of you find and post an interesting synergy between :light and each one of the other elements seperately (it doesn't need to be the whole deck, just post Light card A + Life card B for example, but explain why this combo/synergy is good)?
Thank you in advance! :)

Light has been my favorite element almost since the beginning... I love healing and creatures that are resistant to CC. Generally, the playstyle of Light is "I won't touch you, and you can't touch me" - which is pretty unique among the elements. (Aether has it a bit as well, but Aether also uses CC quite often.)

Between each of the other elements isn't easy, but here's what I can come up with:

Spoiler for Hidden:
Entropy
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4vc 4vl 4vl 4vl 4vl 4vo 4vo 4vo 50u 5lf 5lf 5ll 5ll 5ll 5ll 5ll 5ll 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 8pj

Clumsy Crusaders, which I made originally for Budokan and modded for Trials. My favorite part of the deck is the Butterfly Effect/RoL combo - making it possible to destroy shields, Sanctuaries, and even pillars.

Death
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52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52q 52q 52s 52s 52s 52s 52s 52s 5la 5la 5la 5la 5la 5la 5ld 5ld 5ld 5ld 5li 5li 8pq

Use Aflatoxin on the first enemy creature that appears, play a turn 4 solar shield, and suddenly you've got more :light than you can possibly spend.

Gravity
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55q 55q 55q 55q 55q 55q 562 562 562 562 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5lf 5lf 5lf 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 7ju 7ju 7ju 7ju 7ju 7ju 8pl


6 Angels/4 Acceleration is perfect for healing your own creatures so they never die (well, at least, almost never). It's also a pretty quick rush. I made this deck for trials but never used it.

Earth
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58q 58q 58q 58q 58q 596 596 596 596 596 596 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lh 5lh 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 8pm


Blessing Wardens for both CC and damage. Not that original, but it is definitely underused.

Life
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5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5lj 5lj 5lj 5lj 5lj 5lk 5lk 5lk 8pn


To your opponent, it looks like a standard mono-life rush... until you start playing Luciferin/Hope to block their damage. There are so many good synergies between Life and Light, but in the end I had to go with this one, because I love Luci/Hope decks and this is one of the best.

Fire
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5f7 5f7 5f7 5f7 5f7 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5li 5li 5li 5ll 5ll 5ll 5ll 5ll 5ll 8pq


The two best synergies between Fire and Light - Firestall and Raging Angels - are well-known. There isn't much synergy outside of that, but this seems to be like a fairly solid idea.

Water
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5i7 5i7 5i7 5i7 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 5lh 5lh 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 8pp


This works better than you might think, and yes, the quanta balance is on target. Since the buffs, White Nymphs are very good, and Nymph's Tears makes them even better.

Air
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5lk 5lk 5lk 5lk 5ok 5ok 5ok 5ok 5ok 5ok 5op 5op 5op 5op 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7ju 7ju 7ju 7ju 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 8pr


One of my favorite deck ideas - a pillarless Hope deck with RoLs and unupped Fireflies combing for defense, and Sky Blitz as a finisher.


Final three decks will come within three hours.

Time
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5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lh 5lh 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5rh 5rh 5rh 5rh 5rh 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5ru 5ru 8ps

Probably the least original of all my ideas, but I'm running out of creativity. Blessed Dejas is a reasonably good deck.

Darkness
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5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5lc 5lc 5lc 5lc 5lc 5lc 5lf 5lf 5lh 5lh 5v0 5v0 5v0 5v0 7ju 7ju 7ju 7ju 7ju 7ju 8pt

A lulzy deck, but surprisingly fast - 6 turn wins are possible. The basic synergy is Voodoo Doll + Holy Flash, with Archangels there to heal a Voodoo back so you can beat it down again (as well as more damage).

Aether
Spoiler for Hidden:
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5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lh 5lh 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 7ju 7ju 7ju 7ju 809 809 809 809 809 809 8pq

In case you haven't figured it out by now, I like innovative rushes :D The main combo of the deck is clearly BL + Blessing.


EDIT: Finally finished! :)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 03:54:52 am by mesaprotector »
Blue Ranger reporting, ready for teamwork and silly songs!

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44402.msg1011623#msg1011623
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2012, 08:07:40 pm »
Unupped angel is UU.  How could this be fixed? (Via a slight change, and don't make it OP).

Holy light: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,39386.0.html  Which buff and why?
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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44402.msg1011670#msg1011670
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2012, 10:16:45 pm »
Will you be the general when war comes about, ZBlader?
You're just as selfish as I am. You're just not as good at it yet.

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44402.msg1011687#msg1011687
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2012, 11:29:01 pm »
Z: How high is your estimated PvP skill? And if you do become Master of Light, will you improve it? (since, you know, we usually see you around CI&A board)

Mesa: Do you think Light needs PC? And if so, how would you make it?
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Offline mrpaper

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44402.msg1011729#msg1011729
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2012, 01:12:05 am »
Do you think holy light is a war worthy card? Explain and give an example is the answer is yes.

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44402.msg1011741#msg1011741
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2012, 01:35:15 am »
In your opinion, which light creatures could use some cost/stat tweaking? Why?

What does the element of light mean to you? What does it encompass?

Which specific light cards need buffing/nerfing? Why?

Offline Rutarete

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44402.msg1011756#msg1011756
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2012, 02:16:00 am »
Do you think any other cards in game would fit mechanically/thematically more into light than its current element? Which and why? Should those cards be replaced in that element if they were moved to light?
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Offline mesaprotector

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  • mesaprotector is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.mesaprotector is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.mesaprotector is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44402.msg1011777#msg1011777
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2012, 04:19:47 am »
Unupped angel is UU.  How could this be fixed? (Via a slight change, and don't make it OP).

Holy light: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,39386.0.html  Which buff and why?

I suggest simply raising Guardian Angel's attack to 3. Light lacks unupped attackers (it has none in a mono, besides the dragon), and this would make the card balanced. Yes, I know Graviton Mercenary is worse, as is Blue Crawler. Both of those cards are UP, so it's not a fair comparison.

As for Holy Light, I'm in favor of pump spelling it (10 healing for every 10 :light ). We have bolts for damage, so why not a bolt for healing? It would obviously need a cost increase (I'd favor 4|3 :light) but would become a whole lot more versatile. The only disadvantages I can see to this change are that the upped version is no longer a free card (which made it splashable in decks such as mono-death). Speaking of mono-death, I guess the elemental hate needs to go too, although it does give the card some cool synergies (i.e. Voodoo Doll).

Z: How high is your estimated PvP skill? And if you do become Master of Light, will you improve it? (since, you know, we usually see you around CI&A board)

Mesa: Do you think Light needs PC? And if so, how would you make it?

I actually don't think light needs PC. Light can outstall almost any element, and SoD (which, by the way, should become a :light card) gives it protection against OTKs as well. Not every element needs PC. Some, like Time and Life, I can see an argument for. But if light needs a new card, it should get a decent attacker (at least unupped) or CC, rather than PC.

Do you think holy light is a war worthy card? Explain and give an example is the answer is yes.

An interesting question! Holy Light is actually better in War than other environments, thanks to its controversial elemental hate mechanic (which makes it a good card to use against :death and :darkness). In unrestricted PvP, it's not terribly useful - I use it for getting EMs with a mono-light deck, but other than that it pretty much only has use in Voodoo Doll OTKs. In War it definitely can be useful, though.

In your opinion, which light creatures could use some cost/stat tweaking? Why?

What does the element of light mean to you? What does it encompass?

Which specific light cards need buffing/nerfing? Why?

First, let's talk about buffs and nerfs. Guardian Angel, as stated above, needs a buff. So does Holy Light (actually, it needs a complete overhaul). Upped Hope is the only other light card I'd buff, dropping its cost to 7 :light  - if there's a reason not to up a card, there's a problem that should be looked at. Honestly, I don't think any Light card is OP.

What does light mean to me? Well... it means loving yourself. It means rising up from the depths of the abyss. It means being able to hope, to care, and to believe. That you don't need to pick a fight to win. That there is always a new beginning.  :light

Do you think any other cards in game would fit mechanically/thematically more into light than its current element? Which and why? Should those cards be replaced in that element if they were moved to light?

Well, SoD for sure. Although that's getting into a whole 'nother issue I'd rather not touch.

Other than that? I've heard an argument for Seraph, which would fit thematically in Light, although I believe that Light needs the card scarcely more than Fire does. If Seraph were to become a Light card, there would be no reason to replace it.

I can't think of any others... maybe Sundial? I always felt it should be a :light card with a :time skill. But that might be pushing it.  ;)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 01:07:26 am by mesaprotector »
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Offline Helston

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44402.msg1012061#msg1012061
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2012, 01:13:09 pm »
With all the bias I can possibly muster:

Light should have used a Life duo (or trio as necessary) in War 5.

True or false and why? (Here's a link to the Light vault)
[15:02:07] Jocko [ยป] Helston: You killed a bunch of bunnies with nuclear weapons

 

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