4th Trials - Phase 3 - Community Vote

[Calindu]

Napalm=hmmm...a little bit of inactivity but she is an strong player.TFO=active, good player.Agentflare=active, good player hmmm...my task:create an original deck featuring fire spirit.

Sorry Essence,but you are mathematically eliminated from trials.

[ZephyrPhantom]

With Antagon's return....

Interestingly enough, the concept of Yin-Yang deals with the fact that for one entity, there must be an opposite. Hot to cold is one of the most basic examples.

What element do you feel Fire synergizes with the most, and why?

[~Napalm]

Q: did you ever consider that immolation gives an unfair advantage to fire in war? and why?

The ability to have 4+ Immolation decks* is definitely a huge advantage for Team Fire. No question about it. Now, whether it's an unfair advantage or not is more difficult to tell. It's only unfair if you don't see it coming, like with 24 Discards from Zeru in War # 2. If you plan on facing them at some point, the decks Team Fire can utilize that are based around Immolation are not nearly as frightening. Now, that being said. The ability to consistently rush hard allows for some lucky breaks against decks that may otherwise be able to beat Immo based decks. To me, it's a tossup. Immolation being able to bring in some Rainbow elements in our decks is a huge boost, the ability to rush hard is a boost, but when an enemy knows they're coming, there are ways to stop them. And in war, you can just assume that they're coming.

*We can take 4 at the beginning and it's fairly likely that we run into more Immolation along the way, due to it's epicness

Order the cards of Fire, best to worst.

I'm going to have to respectfully decline on this for the time being. I'm not too keen on ranking an elements cards from Best to Worst. Though I'm sure you already know which ones would be higher and which ones would be lower, if you're asking me.

Immolation, Deflagration and Phoenix aren't a bit too much, all in the same element?

Those 3 together, not so much. But when you throw in Fire Bolt, yes. It does become a bit much all for one element. Rushing power in and of itself isn't so bad (Immolation). There are things that can stop a rush cold. Permanent Control, for as cheap as it is, is pretty darn awesome (Deflagration). I'm more than willing to bet that of all the Fire Cards used by other teams during War, Deflagration is the most common. And then there is Phoenix. Phoenix completed Fire like no single other card could. Notice, there has been not ONE new card for Fire since the addition of Phoenix, with good reason. Fire having a Creature that REFUSES to die is amazing due to the low hp of everything else. Simple CC isn't as effective against Fire as it used to be. It takes more effort to stop a good rush that uses all 3 cards. But honestly, I wouldn't say that these three together are too much. Add in Fahrenheit and Fire Bolt though, and you get an amazing combination of power that is, in my opinion, far greater than any other element.

[Sevs]

@ all
Even though won war, they were on the brink of elimination, and arguably should have been gone, what errors or problems did encounter stretches through war? Did they focus on certain decks too much, Salvage any differently, start the vault off differently?

[Essence]

Napalm or TFO?

TFO.  Nothing against Napalm, but TFO uses some less traditional Fire decks and I think he'll take the lead in trying to lead Fire away from a two-tactic existence more actively than Napalm will.

[~Napalm]

My question is for Essence:

I was sad to see that you had been mathematically eliminated from contention.... so my question is, who should be voted for, Napalm or TheForbiddenOracle?

This question pertains to me, so I will respectfully refrain from advertising. TFO on the other hand, has proven himself worthy of your vote. As you can see from Phase 1, kevkev would agree with that statement. He also proved his mettle in combat during Phase 2. Good job so far buddy, keep it up!

Napalm=hmmm...a little bit of inactivity but she is an strong player.TFO=active, good player.Agentflare=active, good player hmmm...my task:create an original deck featuring fire spirit.

Sorry Essence,but you are mathematically eliminated from trials.

I feel the need to explain that I've been working my butt off for the past month, taking time out of sleep to do the little I have done for Trials. The instant School starts up again here in September, I will have a lot more freedom. I do not want to downplay my loss to Zeru on working my butt off though. That was a legitimate loss against a legitimate player. When considering votes, do not simply overlook that. On that note.... I shall get back to you with a deck. Sounds like a fun challenge! Also, when you say "featuring", what are we talking about here? 4 Fire Spirits? All 6? I won a Tourney once with 2 Spectres in a deck, does that count?

Edit: How about this then? I shall call it... Shadows Ablaze!

by ~Napalm

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Deck import code : [Select]

5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f3 5f3 5f3 5f3 5f3 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f7 5f7 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5up 5up 5v2 5v2 5v2 5v2 8pt

With Antagon's return....

Interestingly enough, the concept of Yin-Yang deals with the fact that for one entity, there must be an opposite. Hot to cold is one of the most basic examples.

What element do you feel Fire synergizes with the most, and why?

Ok, because it's so much easier for me to go off on a tangent about as many synergies as possible and then decide from there, let the wall of text... BEGIN!

Aether:
1. Spark/Ball of Lightning ~ Excellent source of free fuel for Immolation/Cremation based rushes. Surprise damage burst when drawn in excess
2. Parallel/Twin Universe ~ Synergizes well with high HP creatures and/or growth creatures such as Fire Spirit
3 Quintessence ~ Helps with the many low HP creatures
4 Silence ~ High damage output paired with limited room for retaliation? Yes please
5 Fractal ~ Minor Phoenix. 'nuff said

Air:
1 Damselfly ~ Excellent source of free fuel for Immolation/Cremation based rushes. The extra Air quanta can be put to use in creative ways
2 Elite Firefly ~ Generates Fire Quanta
3 Unstable Gas ~ Another source of Burst damage
4 Sky Blitz ~ Double that damage of the many high attack Airborne Fire creatures such as Pheonix, Crimson/Ruby Dragon, and Fire Spirit/Spectre, for 1 turn

Darkness:
1 Voodoo Doll ~ Combine with Rage Potion/Elixir
2 Vampire Stilleto/Dagger ~ Low cost weapon that adds a minor healing boost to Fire. Can be played off of Immolation/Cremation alone
3 Cloak ~ Weak Synergy. Protection for the many low HP creatures. AoE spells will bypass this completely though.

Death:
1 Death Triggers:* Death effects can be combined with Immolation/Cremation or the Arsenal of Creature Control in some pretty cool ways, such as ImmoCatcher

*Vulture/Condor, Boneyard/Graveyard, Bonewall, and Soul Catcher.

Earth:
1 Lava Golem/Destroyer ~ Due to the Growth ability, this creature by itself has Synergy with Earth
2 Gnome Rider/Gemfinder ~ Excellent source of free fuel for Immolation/Cremation based rushes. Earth quanta generation is amazing for Fire decks
3 Graboid ~ Immolation/Cremation grants the Time quanta needed for Evolution, as well as quanta to spam Fire Creatures
4 Steel Golem ~ Beastly as is, Berzerkers when hit with Rage Potion/Elixir
5 Heavy/Plate Armor ~ Aids with low HP of many Fire Creatures. Can also pair with Rage Potion/Elixir

Entropy:
1 Maxwell's Demon ~ Paradox pairs well with the Arsenal of Creature Control Fire has
2 Chaos Power ~ Aids with the low HP of many of Fire's Creatures

Gravity:
1 Graviton Fire eater/Firemaster ~ 'Nuff said
2 Chimera ~ For when Deflagration/Explosion just isn't enough and your Creatures are looking well rested
3 Otyugh ~ Infinite attack when paired with Phoenix/Minor Phoenix or just effective at removing damage with Fire's Arsenal of Creature Control to aid it
3 Gravity Shield ~ When pair with the Arsenal of Creature Control Fire has, just about all damage can be stopped

Life:
1 Heal ~ Covers one of Fire's main weaknesses. Works well with Fire Bolt in a stall
2 Mitosis ~ When used with Minor Phoenix, preferably as Ash, mass Phoenixes and healing can be achieved

Light:
1 Photon/Ray of Light ~ Excellent source of free fuel for Immolation/Cremation based rushes. The latter generates Light quanta
2 Archangel ~ Excellently pairs with Red Nymph and/or Rage Potion to create infinite damage, or as close as one can get
3 Crusader ~ When endowed with Fahrenheit and backed by many Fire Pillar/Towers, things will get messy
4 Blessing ~ Aids with the low HP of many of Fire's Creatures
5 Miracle/Sanctuary ~ Used in Fire Stalls, which are very powerful stalls with high damage capability, destructive stalling force, and plenty of healing

Time:
1 Precognition ~ When used in conjunction with Immolation/Cremation, fast decks can get even faster quite easily
2 Sundial ~ Can forge a Stall with Fire Bolt/Lance

Water:
1 Steam Machine ~ Can grow dangerous extremely fast. When upgraded, Rage Potion/Elixer can speed up this process

Based on the above list of Synergies, my overall decision is that Fire synergizes best with Light. Here's why. Fire has a few main weaknesses. One of those is the lack of healing. Another is the low health of most Fire Creatures. Light has ways to deal with both. From a deckbuilding perspective, Light and Fire together can Rush with the combined power of Photon/Ray of Light and Immolation/Cremation. They can Stall well with Fire Bolt/Lance, Rage Potion/Elixir, Fire Shield/Buckler, Fahrenheit, Sanctuary, and Miracle. And there is a variety of Mid Ranged decks that are just fun to play; FahrenSaders and Raging Angels to name a few. While I personally find myself pairing Fire with Earth and Aether far more often than I pair it with Light, I have come to believe that the element of Light has the best overall synergy with Fire.

[Calindu]

Napalm=hmmm...a little bit of inactivity but she is an strong player.TFO=active, good player.Agentflare=active, good player hmmm...my task:create an original deck featuring fire spirit.

Sorry Essence,but you are mathematically eliminated from trials.

I feel the need to explain that I've been working my butt off for the past month, taking time out of sleep to do the little I have done for Trials. The instant School starts up again here in September, I will have a lot more freedom. I do not want to downplay my loss to Zeru on working my butt off though. That was a legitimate loss against a legitimate player. When considering votes, do not simply overlook that. On that note.... I shall get back to you with a deck. Sounds like a fun challenge! Also, when you say "featuring", what are we talking about here? 4 Fire Spirits? All 6? I won a Tourney once with 2 Spectres in a deck, does that count?

I don't want an numbers,just to be based on them.

[ffun]

Napalm or TFO?

TFO.  Nothing against Napalm, but TFO uses some less traditional Fire decks and I think he'll take the lead in trying to lead Fire away from a two-tactic existence more actively than Napalm will.

Against you in Trials, TFO used a Fire Stall, an Immorush and a Fractix. In his Arena thread, when he spinned a fire spirit, his deck was a Fire stall with spirits thrown in. I really would've loved to see something less traditional, but I can't.

So, that bring up my question: TFO, could you point me to older posts in the forum showing fire decks used by you that were designed thinking a bit "outside the box"? That would really help me decide my vote. Napalm and agent, feel free to show me those as well!

[the dictator]

What is your favourite deck, and why?

[TheForbiddenOracle]

At this point however, it’s clear that not only was Fire on top of its game in terms of strategy, but also in power (Fire has ranked in the top 2 for the past 3 wars). Out of all non-pillar/pendulum cards, what Fire card do you think was your ‘MVC’ (most valuable card) that helped you obtain the win? Explain. (If you weren’t in the war, make a conjecture on what card would the MVC for Fire)”

Deflagration, nearly every element has some harmful Permanent, and this card will work magic by making it disappear with one click of a mouse (besides Bone Walls).

Q: As you all are most likely aware, Fire has long been accused of as being the most overpowered element. In fact there was a heated debate just last week in chat about this (I couldn't resist slipping in the pun). The "evidence" is strong, too -- Fire has not only won two Wars, but also has some of the best and cheapest attack-to-cost ratios (Minor Phoenix), quickest quanta generation spell (Cremation), cards that are based on a solid and devastating strategy (Fahrenheit, Fire Lance), one of the best and most flexible CC (Rage Potion)...not to mention firestalls usually crush players in the Arena.

Regardless of your personal opinion, please argue against nerfing Fire, as if you were Master of Fire and defending your element. Please present points supporting your argument, acknowledge and counter the opposing arguments. If your personal opinion differs, please state so.

"The brighter the light the darker the shadow." To put simply, Fire decks may be great in raw damage and power but it is incredibly fragile. The highest base defense in is 3 (not counting Ash), so the incredibly heavy controls built into are to counter Controls that decimate your decks.

Fire is , indeed, a great element that is very versatile. If you were to be obligated to remove 1 non-pillar non-pendulum card from the element of fire, what would it be? Why?

Fire Spirit, it can't gain any hp which completely makes it vulnerable to CC. Also I can't see any reason why you would use a FS > Fire Golem.

Q: did you ever consider that immolation gives an unfair advantage to fire in war? and why?

Perhaps, but every Element needs atleast one card that gives them an unfair advantage against another.

Order the cards of Fire, best to worst.

Put it on hold for now

Immolation, Deflagration and Phoenix aren't a bit too much, all in the same element?

Together, perhaps they are a bit much but separately I don't think so.

Against you in Trials, TFO used a Fire Stall, an Immorush and a Fractix. In his Arena thread, when he spinned a fire spirit, his deck was a Fire stall with spirits thrown in. I really would've loved to see something less traditional, but I can't.

So, that bring up my question: TFO, could you point me to older posts in the forum showing fire decks used by you that were designed thinking a bit "outside the box"? That would really help me decide my vote. Napalm and agent, feel free to show me those as well!

I'm afraid for this comment either it'll be done at the last day or not be done at all since "outside the box" is pretty judgemental, and I spend a while debating about which ones are and which ones aren't.

[jippy99]

Fire is one of the most versatile elements and therefore gets many cries to nerf its cards.  How would you respond to those complaints about cards such as phoenix, immolation, and lava golem?

[ffun]

I'm afraid for this comment either it'll be done at the last day or not be done at all since "outside the box" is pretty judgemental, and I spend a while debating about which ones are and which ones aren't.

Well, by my comment I thought it was pretty clear that fire stall, golem rush and fractix are not "outside the box" in the current meta, but maybe you would be questioning if I meant essence-level outside the box or just some original twist on standand decks. Well, of course I would rather see something completely new, but anything that's not a standard pvp/war deck copy paste would help - I'm not asking you to show me necessarily what I would consider original, but at least show me what you would consider outside the box. If your mindset on it proves to be different than mine, will just respectfuly agree to disagree, that's all.

And all this leads me to a more blunt and direct question, after all: why should I vote for you, TFO? Really, I don't want to sound rude - it's an honest doubt of mine. Fire is not even one of my favourite elements, and I didn't even plan to originally ask any questions in this Fire trial (Essence's comment on you sparkled my interest). It was one of the easiest votes for me - I would go with essence, because I think he could truly show us a new face of fire. With him out, Napalm would obviously be my next choice: great personality, skillful pvper, fantastic war history and showed us countless times how well she could play the "tried and true" decks. To vote for you, you would have to show me there's something unique or better that you can bring to the table. If not originality then, what else? I would like to know and, yes, I would be more than willing to change my vote due to a good, honest answer. Bear with me - I went through the trouble of writing this wall of text with the virtual keyboard on my iPad - that shows just how honestly interested I am in your answer.