Post by: willng3 on February 28, 2012, 09:41:32 pm
You can run but you can't hide~
(http://i.imgur.com/kiJPF.png)
:lifebig :lifebig :lifebig :lifebig :lifebig
(http://i.imgur.com/kiJPF.png)
:lifebig :lifebig :lifebig :lifebig :lifebig
Post by: ak65ala on February 29, 2012, 05:46:22 am
Good games willng3, this truly proves you are better at PvP than I am. Good to have another throwdown with you. Always enjoyable.
Reflection: I haven't spent enough time working this game to deserve this mastership. I half-glad I didn't win. Willng3's the better master. I did give it my all though, so don't think I gave it to him. Between family, job, commute, new baby soon, other obligations, I only had 2 hours in elements to test this week. About 6 hours on paper making decks. Plus, this community needs peons, those good at the game, but not at the top. I have never won a tournament, a PvP event, anything really. Good thing I truly enjoy this community and just playing the game. Expect to see my crazy face for a long time.
Game 1: Win
I won toss. 2 up-pendulums, 1 non-up. 2 shards, 1 bond, 1 nymph. Will played one pend of each.
2: threw out non-upped pendulum. he play staff.
3: I play up pend. He play nothing.
4: Draw spines, and throw them out. He use up tower.
5: I throw out phorah, shard, clone away. He throw purify, two SoG.
6: Clone. Him nothing,
7: Clone (drew an anubis) Him, purify.
8: Throw out nymph, shard her. He frezes my nymph with a bolt (could be bad).
9: I anubis my nymph. He heals
(should be my game w/ eternity and no damage on his side.)
Game 2: Loss
two up pend, thorn, miracle, time, divinity, heal. He throws 3 upped pend, one up pillar.
2: Throw down the two time pillars (quanta worth more than a suprise later.)
3: I'm at 6 life, that's silly. He dragon.
4: I wait for thorns... sigh. He parallel's dragon.
5: Get un-upped pend, play a staff (at 7 life next turn.) He nothing.
6: I thorn, divinity: He dragon + paralell
7: I am one off of a miracle =P; He thunderbots to death.
Game 3: Loss
I won toss. 2 un-upped pend, 1 up pend, dragon, heal, eye, shockwave. Same as last, 3 pend, one pillar, all up.
2: I up pend (waited for a swing both ways) He waits.
3: I wait. He waits
4: I eye. He waits (he is going to flood me)
5: Fly eye, second eye down. He dim-shields!
6: I wait. He waits
7: I thorn. He waits
8: drop an upped pend. He shields again.
9: ...
turns turns. Silence OTK, smart.
Game 4: Loss
Deck: same as game 1
One toss... geez. 3 pend, 2 upped pend, eternity, shard. He 3 pend, two towers.
2: Another upped pend. He dragon.
3: ANOTHER UPPED PEND. He lobotomoizer :-\
4: I reverse dragon, draw pharoah. He Nothing.
5: Draw bond, play. He nothing.
6: Draw anubis. Shard + imortality. He waits
7: Draw thorns, play, He Waits.
8: pharoah + quint.
He rushes... Too much. bah!
Game 5: Loss
Win toss. up pend, up pillar, pend, arsenic, heal, 2 bonds, He 3 pend, pillar.
2: scorpoion out. He wait.
3: Arsenic out. He dragon shields. ...
Stupid hard to stabilize against this rush =P
9 turns dead.
(I didn't take turn by turn... I was up to 8 cells and a scorpion, 1 bond down, 3 in hand... not enough life to play them fast enough.)
Game 6: Loss
Deck: Same as game 2
Won toss. 2 un-upped pend, one upped pend, 1 time, spine, eternity, heal He three pend, 1 pillar.
Draw 2 more thorn.
3: leaf for the fun of it, throw him off. This leaf is actually useful!!
(Thorn always leaves one healthy dragon for him to PU, no divinity for me, only heals, not fast enough to chain miracles.)
10 turn loss.
Post by: Jenkar on February 29, 2012, 01:01:23 pm
Post by: Bootsza on February 29, 2012, 04:27:07 pm
Shall be awesome.Agreed! Another tasty battle to look forward to.
Post by: Cel on February 29, 2012, 04:44:17 pm
Post by: ralouf on February 29, 2012, 05:20:19 pm
Post by: n00b on March 01, 2012, 12:49:35 pm
Best luck to both of you, there is always the chance that I'll be awake that morning on a Saturday./sarcasm
May the best frog win.
Post by: ak65ala on March 01, 2012, 02:49:45 pm
... May the best frog win.Willng3 can't use horned frog.... so....?
Heh, guess I'll win then.
Post by: willng3 on March 03, 2012, 04:44:06 pm
Background info:
Reasonings:
Above all else, I wanted to remove some of the threats that really screwed me over last Trials as well as some personal annoyances. I tried to limit ak's access to common synergies as much as possible as well.
Dim Shield - Speaks for itself. This card shuts down Life almost in its entirety and would have limited my ability to rush had I permitted it to be used. I didn't need to reconsider this one. Fractal - Frogtal is nasty, especially when used with Silences. I didn't want this deck used against me AT ALL.
Wings - While not quite as bad as Dim Shield, I didn't want to have to worry about being hard countered by this card at all.
Steal - PC was big on my list of things to get rid of. I had a lot of stalls prepared and learned from last Trials not to underestimate this card. Not having Dim Shield banned made this ban pay off big time.
Skull Shield - Wasn't much of a point to this ban, but I didn't think that ak would ban Adrenaline, consequently meaning this card wouldn't counter me. Doing this again I may have banned Arsenic or Bone Wall instead.
Earthquake - Huge threat to Life. With Leaf Dragon being the best form of alternate quanta production Life has, this absolutely had to go.
Antimatter - Toss up between this and Pandemonium, but I had already planned to use Dragons quite a bit and didn't want this getting in my way again.
Discord - Just plain wrecks Life's decks and slows them down considerably. Instant ban.
Deflagration - Fire was hard for me because all of the CC possibilities made me want to ban ALL the cards. However as with Steal, I didn't want this card getting in my way. Ever.
Sapphire Charger - There wasn't a huge need for this ban, but I found myself with a few leftover ban points and this seemed like a strong card to ban. Upped Chargers work too well with Adrenaline, so this had to go.
Mitosis - I almost went with Adrenaline here, but realized that a Mitosis ban would cause significantly more harm to his amount of freedom than Adrenaline.
Sanctuary - Limited his stall ability, but most importantly meant that he couldn't counter Silence.
Reverse Time - Again, not a huge card on my priority list, but it counters both Adrenaline, Mitosis, and PU fairly well so I didn't see any drawbacks of getting rid of it.
Ice Shield - Learned last Trials not to underestimate this card. Plus it's seriously annoying against Adrenaline and heavy hitters like Dragons. Didn't regret this ban at all.
Shard of Gratitude - I was torn between this and SoD, but figured this could be used to allow for significantly more stalling and did away with it.
Shard of Sacrifice - I don't think this card is so OP that it would cause me to lose every duel, but I didn't want myself to go full rush and then get beat in the face with this card.
Above all else, I wanted to remove some of the threats that really screwed me over last Trials as well as some personal annoyances. I tried to limit ak's access to common synergies as much as possible as well.
Dim Shield - Speaks for itself. This card shuts down Life almost in its entirety and would have limited my ability to rush had I permitted it to be used. I didn't need to reconsider this one. Fractal - Frogtal is nasty, especially when used with Silences. I didn't want this deck used against me AT ALL.
Wings - While not quite as bad as Dim Shield, I didn't want to have to worry about being hard countered by this card at all.
Steal - PC was big on my list of things to get rid of. I had a lot of stalls prepared and learned from last Trials not to underestimate this card. Not having Dim Shield banned made this ban pay off big time.
Skull Shield - Wasn't much of a point to this ban, but I didn't think that ak would ban Adrenaline, consequently meaning this card wouldn't counter me. Doing this again I may have banned Arsenic or Bone Wall instead.
Earthquake - Huge threat to Life. With Leaf Dragon being the best form of alternate quanta production Life has, this absolutely had to go.
Antimatter - Toss up between this and Pandemonium, but I had already planned to use Dragons quite a bit and didn't want this getting in my way again.
Discord - Just plain wrecks Life's decks and slows them down considerably. Instant ban.
Deflagration - Fire was hard for me because all of the CC possibilities made me want to ban ALL the cards. However as with Steal, I didn't want this card getting in my way. Ever.
Sapphire Charger - There wasn't a huge need for this ban, but I found myself with a few leftover ban points and this seemed like a strong card to ban. Upped Chargers work too well with Adrenaline, so this had to go.
Mitosis - I almost went with Adrenaline here, but realized that a Mitosis ban would cause significantly more harm to his amount of freedom than Adrenaline.
Sanctuary - Limited his stall ability, but most importantly meant that he couldn't counter Silence.
Reverse Time - Again, not a huge card on my priority list, but it counters both Adrenaline, Mitosis, and PU fairly well so I didn't see any drawbacks of getting rid of it.
Ice Shield - Learned last Trials not to underestimate this card. Plus it's seriously annoying against Adrenaline and heavy hitters like Dragons. Didn't regret this ban at all.
Shard of Gratitude - I was torn between this and SoD, but figured this could be used to allow for significantly more stalling and did away with it.
Shard of Sacrifice - I don't think this card is so OP that it would cause me to lose every duel, but I didn't want myself to go full rush and then get beat in the face with this card.
Bans and my impressions of each:
Fractal - I was confused by him not banning Dim Shield, but Fractal can be just as powerful in its own right so it wasn't out of the question. However, I will say that this ban left me confused after I also noticed that Frogs were banned as well.
Flying Weapon - This was a good ban. It limited my versatility considerably. There were several times that I could see myself wanting to use AdrenaStaves or the like and this ban stopped that cold.
Steal - Also banned by myself, a smart choice.
Arsenic - Good choice. Arsenic is extremely powerful when left unhindered even against stalls with excessive healing.
Poison - I thought this was a bit redundant with the Arsenic ban, but after testing against my own Death duo used from last Trials, I could see the logic here.
Earthquake - Also banned by myself. A nuisance that should be removed.
Discord - Again, this card's just obnoxious to Life in general and deserves to receive a ban every time.
Nova - Wasn't fazed by this ban much. I can dish out just as much speed with several other duos that aren't as prone to control or bad draws as a Grabbow. I don't think I ever would have used SoSe or anything similar either.
Deflagration - Instant PC. Gotta go.
Fire Bolt - Smart ban. I was worried about a Firestall appearing against several decks I had built, and this card was the main offender each time.
Momentum - Didn't see the point to this ban, especially with the threat of Dim Shield being banned on his side. I don't think I've ever used AdrenaMomentumScorpions and have used Momentum Emerald Dragons once due to the situation at the time needing it.
Horned Frog - Well...this one was mean. Not having my favorite creature by my side was difficult in allowing me to build a brutal rush, but I still found myself disbelieving that neither Mitosis or Adrenaline was banned instead. I basically just went and added Cockatrice to nearly every deck that would have used Frogs. Sure, it made it a bit slower, but it really didn't change much.
Shard of Readiness - This was actually a good ban. I had wanted from the start to create a Pharaoh SoR deck with Animated Eternities and an Anubis or two for Trials and this ban stopped that endeavor cold. It also prevented me from combining this with Mitosis for some rather nasty creature spawning possibilities. However, I personally disagreed with this ban if only because it seemed more practical to ban Mitosis in its place, and the Pharaoh deck would be easier to adapt to.
Shard of Void - I had considered using a SoV stall myself so I didn't disagree with this ban. This also led me to believe that ak was planning to stall quite a bit, which made the ban more practical.
Overall, I thought that ak made some pretty good choices, but found myself wondering why he left gaping holes open that he had closed during the bans of last Trials. Not banning Dim Shield and also to an extent Wings made me wonder if ak was setting out to prove that Life was not inferior to both of these cards or if he was trying to prove that he could win easily even with these cards used against him. However, this placed a seed of doubt in my mind as I questioned whether or not ak had come up with some secret weapon to use against both of them, thus making the bans completely unnecessary for him. I believed the bans left the outcome of the duel slanted in my favor, but unpredictability changes expected outcomes quite a bit. With pretty much none of ak's decks being what I expected, I was a bit nervous at all times despite my confidence with the current ban situation.Fractal - I was confused by him not banning Dim Shield, but Fractal can be just as powerful in its own right so it wasn't out of the question. However, I will say that this ban left me confused after I also noticed that Frogs were banned as well.
Flying Weapon - This was a good ban. It limited my versatility considerably. There were several times that I could see myself wanting to use AdrenaStaves or the like and this ban stopped that cold.
Steal - Also banned by myself, a smart choice.
Arsenic - Good choice. Arsenic is extremely powerful when left unhindered even against stalls with excessive healing.
Poison - I thought this was a bit redundant with the Arsenic ban, but after testing against my own Death duo used from last Trials, I could see the logic here.
Earthquake - Also banned by myself. A nuisance that should be removed.
Discord - Again, this card's just obnoxious to Life in general and deserves to receive a ban every time.
Nova - Wasn't fazed by this ban much. I can dish out just as much speed with several other duos that aren't as prone to control or bad draws as a Grabbow. I don't think I ever would have used SoSe or anything similar either.
Deflagration - Instant PC. Gotta go.
Fire Bolt - Smart ban. I was worried about a Firestall appearing against several decks I had built, and this card was the main offender each time.
Momentum - Didn't see the point to this ban, especially with the threat of Dim Shield being banned on his side. I don't think I've ever used AdrenaMomentumScorpions and have used Momentum Emerald Dragons once due to the situation at the time needing it.
Horned Frog - Well...this one was mean. Not having my favorite creature by my side was difficult in allowing me to build a brutal rush, but I still found myself disbelieving that neither Mitosis or Adrenaline was banned instead. I basically just went and added Cockatrice to nearly every deck that would have used Frogs. Sure, it made it a bit slower, but it really didn't change much.
Shard of Readiness - This was actually a good ban. I had wanted from the start to create a Pharaoh SoR deck with Animated Eternities and an Anubis or two for Trials and this ban stopped that endeavor cold. It also prevented me from combining this with Mitosis for some rather nasty creature spawning possibilities. However, I personally disagreed with this ban if only because it seemed more practical to ban Mitosis in its place, and the Pharaoh deck would be easier to adapt to.
Shard of Void - I had considered using a SoV stall myself so I didn't disagree with this ban. This also led me to believe that ak was planning to stall quite a bit, which made the ban more practical.
Duels:
Game 1 (Gargantuan Purify Overdose): LOSS
With Dim Shields fair game on my side, I saw Poison as a very possible attempt to counter that card, and I also theorized that ak might predict me to try and abuse that power immediately. This deck may have stood a chance, but unfortunately my Carapaces never showed their faces and instead decided to chill in safer places. Can't complain about RNG though; the deck's so fat that it would be stupid not to expect this to happen. 0-1
Game 2 (PU Dragon Beater Lightning Variant): WIN
Yeah, I had planned to use this deck far before bans had even been set in place, as my TPvP experiences had taught me just how freaking brutal this deck can be. Out of my 20-some decks I built for these Trials, this was the first and probably the deck I spent the most time tweaking to perfection. The deck sped past him (I can't remember if I drew a Phase Shield or not) and ended with a KO via Dragons and double Lightning. 1-1
Game 3 (PU Dragon Beater Silence Variant): WIN
One of the greatest things about this deck type is that it's very easy to customize and just about any modifications you choose to use serve a great purpose. In this case, the Silences in place of the Lightnings allowed me to sit back and relax behind Phase Shields as I slowly waited to draw the PUs and Dragons I needed to start a series of Silence chains to allow me to win. 2 Eagle's Eyes held me off for a bit longer, but I never allowed him to play Shockwaves (if he had them, of course). 2-1
Game 4 (PU Dragon Beater Lobo Variant):
Again demonstrating the terrifying speed and stall power of this deck. This time I feared Momentum or AdrenaStaves might make an appearance and decided to go with Lobo as a counter. I had a pretty ridiculous quanta draw this game, allowing for a turn 2 Dragon. As soon as Eternity appeared I decided to sit back and wait until I could spam Dragons to allow for an unavoidable KO. Lobo made its appearance and helped make the damage dealing faster among other things. 3-1
Game 5 (PU Dragon Beater Silence Variant): WIN
And back to this variant again, predicting a Firestall or a Death duo using Bone Wall. I never did see if Bone Wall was in his deck, but with some easy Dim Shield chaining and chipping away at his HP with my Dragons while he was forced to Aflatoxin his own Scorpion, 1 Silence on the second to last turn was all I needed. 4-1
Game 6 (PU Dragon Beater Lobo Variant):
Seeing his stall work better than its first attempt had me somewhat nervous. Carapace threatened my Dragons while he managed to activate 1 Miracle to prolong his death and cause more of my Dragons to die. Unfortunately for ak, my deck was extremely generous to me and gave me a good supply of Dragons and TUs throughout the duel, meaning his beatdown could not be prolonged but for so long. 5-1
Welp, that's that. Not exactly the showiest display from myself, but I analyzed the situation intently from the start and deduced that this one deck build would give me the greatest chances of winning. I'd like to list every single one of my decks that I had prepared for this fight, but there are a few that I'd like to keep stowed away for later use. A few personal favorites of mine, however, I will post.
Didn't have access to Firestall (no Lances), so had to go with something different. Kills off most rushes and deals damage at a steady rate. First time I've really gotten to use my Red Nymphs effectively too, as a bonus. ak didn't seem to want to rush anytime soon though, so I wasn't tempted to use it.
Sort of a deck for the lulz. I didn't expect to use it, but felt proud of myself for finding a way to get this to work even somewhat effectively. ???s are 4 SoSas and 4 SoPs.
After seeing MrBlonde use a deck with Frogs in his Final Battle, I felt I needed to create a unique Death duo as a tribute. This one absolutely destroys rushes that lack CC, but unfortunately I never used it since that didn't seem to be the atmosphere here. This is literally the first time I've ever gotten Retrovirus to work even somewhat decently in a Life duo.
Assuming your Quantum Towers give you :life and :light, this deck's surprisingly effective. If not...lmao. I never planned to use this unless ak was countering my decks left and right because who the hell would expect this of all things?
Good games again, ak65ala. It appears that the curse of Life's Masters never repeating a term has thus come to an end.
Post by: Jenkar on March 03, 2012, 05:06:08 pm
Post by: Calindu on March 03, 2012, 05:07:31 pm
Post by: majofa on March 03, 2012, 05:12:45 pm
Post by: Rutarete on March 03, 2012, 05:15:11 pm
Post by: PlayerOa on March 03, 2012, 06:16:17 pm
Gratz willng. ;)
Post by: zhangvict on March 03, 2012, 06:42:34 pm
And phase shield is now probably Element's most hated card lolz.
Post by: Jenkar on March 03, 2012, 07:04:06 pm
This clearly demonstrates that the effort and skill and completing a trials is so much more than the final battle. In fact, I would go as far as to say the performance in the final battle is almost inconsequential compared to the experience, knowledge, thinking etc required in the other less flashy parts of the trials, particularly the planning and banning of cards, understanding the strengths an weaknesses of the elements and it's possible synergies etc.Oh boy how i dodisagree. See air finals for purrfect counterexample
And phase shield is now probably Element's most hated card lolz.
Post by: burpcow on March 03, 2012, 07:42:08 pm
Post by: Higurashi on March 03, 2012, 07:53:24 pm
This clearly demonstrates that the effort and skill and completing a trials is so much more than the final battle. In fact, I would go as far as to say the performance in the final battle is almost inconsequential compared to the experience, knowledge, thinking etc required in the other less flashy parts of the trials, particularly the planning and banning of cards, understanding the strengths an weaknesses of the elements and it's possible synergies etc.Heh, this will keep happening when you don't ban Dims (and sometimes Wings) and all good PC is banned. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30364.0.html
And phase shield is now probably Element's most hated card lolz.
Only 5-0 in the history of Trials. 5-1 speaks quite a bit too.
Bans have a huge impact for sure. Not decided yet if it's too huge for my taste.
Post by: furballdn on March 03, 2012, 08:42:54 pm
Post by: ak65ala on March 04, 2012, 12:39:16 am
This is why you ban Dim Shield lolI have no idea why people fear this card.... Most likely why I lost. But, anyway, I lost game 3 because of dimensional shield. Games 2,4-6 I was rushed to death. Those games, Dimensional shield wasn't the problem.
My whole strategy was planned around letting him use these cards, and it did not work... but none of the "OMG OP" cards were the problem.
Post by: MrBlonde on March 04, 2012, 05:40:49 am
(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6526/willj.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/829/willj.png/)
Your deck may be a bit slow but once it gets going there is no stopping it. 5-0 vs my poor frogs (and it's 31 upps).
Post by: willng3 on March 04, 2012, 05:49:21 am
Great Games Willng and congrats on your 2nd term! And because you actually made a deck in tribute to my frogs i decided to play your virii deck vs mine.Lol poor Frogs. But it was pretty cool having the two go face to face like that.
(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6526/willj.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/829/willj.png/)
Your deck may be a bit slow but once it gets going there is no stopping it. 5-0 vs my poor frogs (and it's 31 upps).
Thanks for the compliments, I hope to see you in War soon :)
Post by: The_Mormegil on March 04, 2012, 06:29:11 am
...and yeah, dim shield vs life is almost unfair.