TRIALS - Challenge a Master, Become a Master

[GG]

I know it was discussed in this thread during the last trials, but has there been any reconsideration about how War bonuses are done? Mainly, can you use a bonus for a different element? Most people did not have the opportunity to choose which team they would be fighting on.

And in regards to the Masters tourney, I was thinking the points gained by Masters should be lowered by a point or two this time around, only because there will be 10 masters competing instead of 12 (and therefore only one who falls in the 10th-12th place range).

Logically, one should not receive a war bonus if she/he hasn't fought for the element in question. It just makes sense that way. For instance, a challenger from winning team receiving tons of war bonus while the Master receiving no bonus would make absolutely no sense.

And yes, master tournament bonus will probably be rescaled.

[7wavemaster]

Not everyone can join the Trials. There are some minimum requirements to ensure that the person is serious about becoming a Master.
20,000+ score in Elements
200+ forums posts
Each participant must meet those three minimum requirements, no exceptions. Spamming the forums to get those 50 posts is not allowed, and you have to provide a screen shot of your score if asked.

Might wanna update this.

[puppy33333]

If you beat them, then you've just proven that they could NOT do it any better.

I know that but this is a CCG luck plays huge into this. I think that even if i may be a better deckbuilder with that element, they could probably help the community more. There are lots of people out there who even though i may be lucky enough to beat but they could do the job better. Just to name a couple Terro, Antagon, Zeru, You, I just may be able to win thanks to HUGE luck. But i probably would be worse for the community. Not baggin on myself or botchin the other masters up but i'm just not right for the job. And to top it all off.

yeah if u have a awesome draw u could beat the other guy easily

[QuantumT]

So was it changed so that challengers don't get war bonus?

Edit: So I figured out that it was, and I have to disagree. Even if you didn't get to play on the team you wanted, if your team did well you probably have a good idea of how to play with that element, meaning that you'd likely be a decent master.

It also gives a bonus to masters that isn't available to the challengers.

[Scaredgirl]

So was it changed so that challengers don't get war bonus?

Edit: So I figured out that it was, and I have to disagree. Even if you didn't get to play on the team you wanted, if your team did well you probably have a good idea of how to play with that element, meaning that you'd likely be a decent master.

It also gives a bonus to masters that isn't available to the challengers.

We had a long talk about this topic is chat the other day.

The reason why Challengers are not getting any War bonus, is that it could potentially lead to a situation where the General doesn't bid on his or her top competition, therefore denying that person the War bonus.

Lets say I'm Master of . I know Frank, a well-liked veteran member, is going to join the Trials, and have a good chance of taking my title. I don't want that, so I don't bid on Frank at all during War auction. Frank gets picked up by some other team, gets zero War bonus, and I get a big advantage over him when the Trials come.

And before someone says "current Masters wouldn't do this!", that's not the point. The point is that there is room for exploitation so it must be fixed.

Masters also had a big score disadvantage during last Trials, so this is a great way to balance it out. Remember that one challenger always gets that 10 points during battle phase, while the bottom 9 Masters get less than that. Look at the final scores from last Trials to see what I mean.

[nilsieboy]

So was it changed so that challengers don't get war bonus?

Edit: So I figured out that it was, and I have to disagree. Even if you didn't get to play on the team you wanted, if your team did well you probably have a good idea of how to play with that element, meaning that you'd likely be a decent master.

It also gives a bonus to masters that isn't available to the challengers.

We had a long talk about this topic is chat the other day.

The reason why Challengers are not getting any War bonus, is that it could potentially lead to a situation where the General doesn't bid on his or her top competition, therefore denying that person the War bonus.

Lets say I'm Master of . I know Frank, a well-liked veteran member, is going to join the Trials, and have a good chance of taking my title. I don't want that, so I don't bid on Frank at all during War auction. Frank gets picked up by some other team, gets zero War bonus, and I get a big advantage over him when the Trials come.

And before someone says "current Masters wouldn't do this!", that's not the point. The point is that there is room for exploitation so it must be fixed.

Masters also had a big score disadvantage during last Trials, so this is a great way to balance it out. Remember that one challenger always gets that 10 points during battle phase, while the bottom 9 Masters get less than that. Look at the final scores from last Trials to see what I mean.

i think that'd count for generals to who fight for the same (icb leaded his team all the time and did a good job...)

[Scaredgirl]

i think that'd count for generals to who fight for the same (icb leaded his team all the time and did a good job...)

Yes. Temporary Generals will also get the War bonus if they apply for the same element.

[nilsieboy]

i think that'd count for generals to who fight for the same (icb leaded his team all the time and did a good job...)

Yes. Temporary Generals will also get the War bonus if they apply for the same element.

a new reason to be sad about water this war

[chum3]

So was it changed so that challengers don't get war bonus?

Edit: So I figured out that it was, and I have to disagree. Even if you didn't get to play on the team you wanted, if your team did well you probably have a good idea of how to play with that element, meaning that you'd likely be a decent master.

It also gives a bonus to masters that isn't available to the challengers.

We had a long talk about this topic is chat the other day.

The reason why Challengers are not getting any War bonus, is that it could potentially lead to a situation where the General doesn't bid on his or her top competition, therefore denying that person the War bonus.

Lets say I'm Master of . I know Frank, a well-liked veteran member, is going to join the Trials, and have a good chance of taking my title. I don't want that, so I don't bid on Frank at all during War auction. Frank gets picked up by some other team, gets zero War bonus, and I get a big advantage over him when the Trials come.

And before someone says "current Masters wouldn't do this!", that's not the point. The point is that there is room for exploitation so it must be fixed.

Masters also had a big score disadvantage during last Trials, so this is a great way to balance it out. Remember that one challenger always gets that 10 points during battle phase, while the bottom 9 Masters get less than that. Look at the final scores from last Trials to see what I mean.

Didn't know the rule changed either until I read these posts. I was thinking, even before the rule change, was to give competitors who participated in War half the war bonus they would have received if they're trying for an element from a team they weren't on (e.g., if someone from Entropy tries for Time, they would get half their war bonus in the Time trials as opposed to getting it all from the Entropy trials). But as GG pointed out, it lacks sense to give someone a War bonus if they didn't fight for a given element. Maybe a middle-ground to this, though: give competitors who participated in War for the element they're trying out for half the war bonus of a General/Master of that element?

Also, the person who wins the battle phase isn't always the one that moves on (I think this happened once last Trials). Master's having a score disadvantage might be different this time around given that there are less Masters battling in the Masters tourney and all trials are hotly contested (and most likely no competitor getting an automatic 10 points in the battle phase because of no competition). It'll be interesting to see what happens.

[QuantumT]

We had a long talk about this topic is chat the other day.

The reason why Challengers are not getting any War bonus, is that it could potentially lead to a situation where the General doesn't bid on his or her top competition, therefore denying that person the War bonus.

Lets say I'm Master of . I know Frank, a well-liked veteran member, is going to join the Trials, and have a good chance of taking my title. I don't want that, so I don't bid on Frank at all during War auction. Frank gets picked up by some other team, gets zero War bonus, and I get a big advantage over him when the Trials come.

And before someone says "current Masters wouldn't do this!", that's not the point. The point is that there is room for exploitation so it must be fixed.

Masters also had a big score disadvantage during last Trials, so this is a great way to balance it out. Remember that one challenger always gets that 10 points during battle phase, while the bottom 9 Masters get less than that. Look at the final scores from last Trials to see what I mean.

These two things seems rather at odds with each other. On one hand, you're talking about the masters having an advantage because they can choose who will get the bonus next war, on the other you're talking about them being at a score disadvantage.

There's also the whole thing where it rewarded you for helping a team to do well. Let's say that Sir Valimont wanted to try out for entropy master. For what I can tell, he was every bit as important to entropy's victory as Zeru, but he gets no bonus for it, which hardly seems fair.

Additionally if all someone wanted was to be master, it would actually be to their advantage to throw the war, so that the master wouldn't get any bonus either. This problem seems to be at least as large as the one you're trying to fix.

[Amilir]

I rather agree with QuantumT here.  Sabotage would be ridiculously easy, if just simply pretending you don't have a couple pillars in your own matches.  Any player with more power, that is, most of the master candidates, could do much worse.  I prefer the old idea of giving war bonus to trials outside your own as well, or eliminating it entirely.  If you want to give masters another bonus, you could easily add a flat bonus, or add a masters only part three to the first phase.

[Scaredgirl]

These two things seems rather at odds with each other. On one hand, you're talking about the masters having an advantage because they can choose who will get the bonus next war, on the other you're talking about them being at a score disadvantage.

Masters had a big score disadvantage during the last Trials. You had to pretty much ace the War and Masters' tournament to get as many upped cards as the top challenger.

There's also the whole thing where it rewarded you for helping a team to do well. Let's say that Sir Valimont wanted to try out for entropy master. For what I can tell, he was every bit as important to entropy's victory as Zeru, but he gets no bonus for it, which hardly seems fair.

General is a leader of a team, so naturally if one person gets rewarded, that person will be the General. Even if some other team member worked harder, it was the General who picked that team member during the Auction.

Rewarding the whole team would be nice, but it cannot be done because of the reasons I explained earlier.

Additionally if all someone wanted was to be master, it would actually be to their advantage to throw the war, so that the master wouldn't get any bonus either. This problem seems to be at least as large as the one you're trying to fix.

Me as a General not bidding on Frank and taking someone else (equally qualified) from the huge available player pool, is a very simple process that takes zero of my time and gives me no real disadvantage in War. Best part is that there's no way of getting caught doing this because I don't have to give reason why I don't bid on a specific player.

Frank joining my team and spending two months sabotaging battles in order to deny me from getting 1-5 extra upped cards during Trials (which I might not have even got without the sabotage), would be pretty ridiculous. Frank would choose those couple of upped cards over the possibility of being the winner of the biggest PvP event of our community, while at the same time killing his own reputation by letting everyone think he sucks in PvP.

See the huge difference between those two?


My other option was to get rid of War bonus altogether, but I think War bonus a nice way of motivating the Generals to perform better during the War, without giving them any huge advantage over the Challengers during Trials. Previous bonus was a big one, but now that I cut it in half, it's not that important anymore.