Re: 12th Trials - Suggestions & Feedback

[InsignificantWeeaboo]

Any chance the trials deck voting will come back?  It seems it stopped after 9th trials.  There were some very cool decks these trials.

+1

[worldwideweb3]

Yes, have patience

[Manuel]

1 only 59 ban points was really not enough with a cap on each element, i don't know if it was always like this before shards
 being able to almost double the ban with even/odd games doesn't really help, it only create more coin toss (rng) rather than predictions (skills?)
phase 2 is awesome because it has a lot of restrictions, u can really predict what your opponent can use next with only 4 or 5 elements, it is probably the competition i enjoyed more so far
12 element - 6/12 bans is a lot harder

2 community vote is ridiculous is literally mafia how much finals decided this time? secret vote (do u check who vote?) + higly impact on upgrades is a joke, most people see "vote against u don't like"; this should be capped to max +3 upgrades than your opponent
what happen if someone comes out that a group of players voted for x guy in mass during phase 3 influencing by a lot the number of upgrades and x guy end up by winning?

u can give me all the explanation of the world on how people feel bad on seeing a master they don't like this can happen for war can happen for pvp events u can't influence people to like u or be forced to work in this, it is a competition based on who is the best using an element not the best clout chaser

3 it is possible make a mini tournament for deciding the general of  and  ? (maybe restricted to this time finalist + every ex master + every ex general)
i really don't like asking for things and most time i don't do it, but if u have the chance to win them is totally different, u have 100% more motivation, fun and make everyone happy

[ARTHANASIOS]

1 only 59 ban points was really not enough with a cap on each element, i don't know if it was always like this before shards
 being able to almost double the ban with even/odd games doesn't really help, it only create more coin toss (rng) rather than predictions (skills?)
phase 2 is awesome because it has a lot of restrictions, u can really predict what your opponent can use next with only 4 or 5 elements, it is probably the competition i enjoyed more so far
12 element - 6/12 bans is a lot harder

2 community vote is ridiculous is literally mafia how much finals decided this time? secret vote (do u check who vote?) + higly impact on upgrades is a joke, most people see "vote against u don't like"; this should be capped to max +3 upgrades than your opponent
what happen if someone comes out that a group of players voted for x guy in mass during phase 3 influencing by a lot the number of upgrades and x guy end up by winning?

u can give me all the explanation of the world on how people feel bad on seeing a master they don't like this can happen for war can happen for pvp events u can't influence people to like u or be forced to work in this, it is a competition based on who is the best using an element not the best clout chaser

3 it is possible make a mini tournament for deciding the general of  and  ? (maybe restricted to this time finalist + every ex master + every ex general)
i really don't like asking for things and most time i don't do it, but if u have the chance to win them is totally different, u have 100% more motivation, fun and make everyone happy

+1 to what Manuel said, except for the Phase 2 complaints. I think the community vote is important to see what the community may view/think/want for each of the masters or their rivals.

[dawn to dusk]

1 only 59 ban points was really not enough with a cap on each element, i don't know if it was always like this before shards
 being able to almost double the ban with even/odd games doesn't really help, it only create more coin toss (rng) rather than predictions (skills?)
phase 2 is awesome because it has a lot of restrictions, u can really predict what your opponent can use next with only 4 or 5 elements, it is probably the competition i enjoyed more so far
12 element - 6/12 bans is a lot harder

2 community vote is ridiculous is literally mafia how much finals decided this time? secret vote (do u check who vote?) + higly impact on upgrades is a joke, most people see "vote against u don't like"; this should be capped to max +3 upgrades than your opponent
what happen if someone comes out that a group of players voted for x guy in mass during phase 3 influencing by a lot the number of upgrades and x guy end up by winning?

u can give me all the explanation of the world on how people feel bad on seeing a master they don't like this can happen for war can happen for pvp events u can't influence people to like u or be forced to work in this, it is a competition based on who is the best using an element not the best clout chaser

3 it is possible make a mini tournament for deciding the general of  and  ? (maybe restricted to this time finalist + every ex master + every ex general)
i really don't like asking for things and most time i don't do it, but if u have the chance to win them is totally different, u have 100% more motivation, fun and make everyone happy

Opinions

I disagree with the opinion on Bans, but I feel like the topic is too subjective, and is too widely impacted by differences in elements for any argument to be valid for all.
Community Vote, however, is easier to argue against.

First thing I want to note is the last statement of "it is a competition based on who is the best using an element not the best clout chaser". This "clout" that people achieve is not being a TO, it is not being a skilled Mafia player, it's achieved through PvP skill. Sure, someone can win the first 3 Tourneys they join when first coming to the forums, but putting them against someone like Deuce, a 7 time Aether master, and a 3 time War winner, anyone is almost certainly going to lose to him in a community vote. He has proven that he is incredibly proficient in his element, and has War results to back it up. Anyone with little War experience in general is going to have a hard time against people who have shown themselves to be a valuable War player, general or not. It's not just something that someone can pick up after their first Tournament win, it's hard earned.

Looking at the impact on Upgrades, I wouldn't much accept anything beyond a numbers change for point requirements. Changing it from a linear progression to something more akin to a bell curve, perhaps. By this I mean rather than 1 point per 10% of votes, it's scaled in such a way that if you get a drastically lower percentage of votes, upgrades will be harshly affected, but a similar amount, 60/40 even, would be roughly the same, and would scale slower towards the middle.

[ddevans96]

2 community vote is ridiculous is literally mafia how much finals decided this time? secret vote (do u check who vote?) + higly impact on upgrades is a joke, most people see "vote against u don't like"; this should be capped to max +3 upgrades than your opponent
what happen if someone comes out that a group of players voted for x guy in mass during phase 3 influencing by a lot the number of upgrades and x guy end up by winning?

u can give me all the explanation of the world on how people feel bad on seeing a master they don't like this can happen for war can happen for pvp events u can't influence people to like u or be forced to work in this, it is a competition based on who is the best using an element not the best clout chaser

Most people view Trials as, first and firstmost, a competition for who would make the best General. Most of that is game knowledge, which is covered pretty extensively by both battle phases, and to some extent parts of Phase 1. But another big component is ability to assemble and effectively lead a team, and there can be question marks about a person's ability to do that until proven otherwise. Plus there's other considerations about Mastership that aren't purely PvP - it's not simply about like or dislike for most voters.

3 it is possible make a mini tournament for deciding the general of  and  ? (maybe restricted to this time finalist + every ex master + every ex general)
i really don't like asking for things and most time i don't do it, but if u have the chance to win them is totally different, u have 100% more motivation, fun and make everyone happy

I do not speak for the rest of Council, but personally I would be interested in this and I will bring it up for discussion.

[MyNameIsJoey]

I love how manuel is the one complaining about phase 3 community vote when it did nothing to him, I'm the one who got kicked out of my finals.

[Manuel]

for the ban thing; yes it change a lot depending on what element u are trialing for, if u look at the bans of air, fire and aether that have probably the strongest in-element cards u will see on how similar the bans are rather than the other element

there are a lot more things to say but think on how much you damage your light opponent by only banning sundial and think on aether that need to face dims and fractal

Most people view Trials as, first and firstmost, a competition for who would make the best General. Most of that is game knowledge, which is covered pretty extensively by both battle phases, and to some extent parts of Phase 1. But another big component is ability to assemble and effectively lead a team, and there can be question marks about a person's ability to do that until proven otherwise. Plus there's other considerations about Mastership that aren't purely PvP - it's not simply about like or dislike for most voters.

dani got 5 place last war
rob got 2 time 9 place

these """"""other considerations""""""" influenced so much to give 5 more upgrades to rob, i don't even talk about cactus
ofc these are only stats i have nothing against someone

a lot of players don't even sign-up for phase 3, not for being afraid of losing but because people don't like to be judged (same for irl, people have emotions)
i'm not saying to remove it, simply put a cap of 3 more max bans of your opponent, if u got 2 upgrades after phase 3, your opponent can get max 5

I love how manuel is the one complaining about phase 3 community vote when it did nothing to him, I'm the one who got kicked out of my finals.

i said the same things during phase 3, i don't change opinion only because i won


about the tournament, i said both generals but since i don't think there are enough players, u can choose one by request/like u always did and one with a tournament

[MyNameIsJoey]

doesnt matter if you win or lose, my point is, you got to the final, so you were allowed to prove them wrong.

[worldwideweb3]

for the ban thing; yes it change a lot depending on what element u are trialing for, if u look at the bans of air, fire and aether that have probably the strongest in-element cards u will see on how similar the bans are rather than the other element

there are a lot more things to say but think on how much you damage your light opponent by only banning sundial and think on aether that need to face dims and fractal

Most people view Trials as, first and firstmost, a competition for who would make the best General. Most of that is game knowledge, which is covered pretty extensively by both battle phases, and to some extent parts of Phase 1. But another big component is ability to assemble and effectively lead a team, and there can be question marks about a person's ability to do that until proven otherwise. Plus there's other considerations about Mastership that aren't purely PvP - it's not simply about like or dislike for most voters.

dani got 5 place last war
rob got 2 time 9 place

these """"""other considerations""""""" influenced so much to give 5 more upgrades to rob, i don't even talk about cactus
ofc these are only stats i have nothing against someone

a lot of players don't even sign-up for phase 3, not for being afraid of losing but because people don't like to be judged (same for irl, people have emotions)
i'm not saying to remove it, simply put a cap of 3 more max bans of your opponent, if u got 2 upgrades after phase 3, your opponent can get max 5

I love how manuel is the one complaining about phase 3 community vote when it did nothing to him, I'm the one who got kicked out of my finals.

i said the same things during phase 3, i don't change opinion only because i won


about the tournament, i said both generals but since i don't think there are enough players, u can choose one by request/like u always did and one with a tournament

Regarding bans, in aether trials, I’m happy that Dims and fractal aren’t completely banned. They are aether cards and you need to be able to use them well to be called a master. No point winning a trials where all good cards in your element are banned.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

Regarding bans, in aether trials, I’m happy that Dims and fractal aren’t completely banned. They are aether cards and you need to be able to use them well to be called a master. No point winning a trials where all good cards in your element are banned.

This. I actually think there should be less restriction for in element card, one in element ban for all games is enough regardless if it's a shard or not

[Manuel]

lul but i wasn't talking about in-element or aether, i was talking about the difference between 2 elements, like dawn said

I disagree with the opinion on Bans, but I feel like the topic is too subjective, and is too widely impacted by differences in elements for any argument to be valid for all.

i made the example of dials because

u ban dials for your opponent in     = u nerf several stalls, voidials, pdials (if it is possible make it with this format, i think yes?) etc by spending only 9 points (yes u can do stall without sundials i know)
nerfing so much decks for some elements, with only one off element ban is almost impossible