7th Trials - Suggestions and Feedback

[ddevans96]

Or found all of them equally qualified.

In this case, it would be viable for an element like Time, where you have four really good choices (although I can select one, but some people may not be able to, or want to).

[mrpaper]

Though adding a box that says none of the above is an easy thing to add, i'm not sure I want that.  Mostly because of what dd just said...
If there is too many people who can't decide on who is the better master and elect not to vote, the winner will be decided by that less votes.  If we had millions of votes it wouldn't matter much but in a small community, it does.  Say for exemple I got 5 friends who will vote for me no matter what (I wish !) add that to my vote and I am at 6 votes, if there is only 30 votes instead of 50 because of many people who can't decide between me and Terroking, then I get 6/30(20%) votes to start with instead of 6/50 (12%).
Also, wouldn't you be sad to run for an element and tons of people refuse to vote?  You wouldn't know if they feel you and you're opponent are equally good... or both not worthy.  When someone votes for Calindu, that person doesn't say they others  in entropy are inadequate... with that they could express that somehow and it's not our goal to humiliate others.

[inthisroom]

I wanted to write this before playing the final battle.

I thought these Trials were very well organised, everything has run smoothly so far, there were no delays, even I (definitely the tl;dr type...) got the rules, and all my questions have been answered with a lot of clarity.

No matter the final result, I've enjoyed participating, thank you.

[Vangelios]

I disagree, I was prejudiced for something that is not in the rules
if he had written some things in the rules, I never would be caught by surprise

[Blacksmith]

I disagree, I was prejudiced for something that is not in the rules
if he had written some things in the rules, I never would be caught by surprise

In your particular case Vangelios I don't agree with the ruling nor do I agree with the Terroking thingy! but however I think that as a whole this event have been great. The round 2 rules wore splendid and round 4 is ok too.

 

[PlayerOa]

I wanted to write this before playing the final battle.

I thought these Trials were very well organised, everything has run smoothly so far, there were no delays, even I (definitely the tl;dr type...) got the rules, and all my questions have been answered with a lot of clarity.

No matter the final result, I've enjoyed participating, thank you.

Add me to the list of people who agree.

Thanks for hosting Onizuka, you've done a great job. An extra mention to the Phase II rulesets - they really made me think and bent my mind.

[Vangelios]

situations inactive players are common, these rules should be very clear there.
real life or not, no one else could play with furballdn, only Laxa.

if I should really send a post, it should be written on the phase 2 duel and I do not see it in the rules.  I was so prejudiced  by something did not know should have done.and to speak the truth even thought furballdn had aborted.

is impossible to imagine that I was fleeing the furball as was the interpretation of Onizuka, unacceptable, he knows very well that I was not avoiding furballdn.
and he used something that is not in the rules against me, even knowing the problems that I DM and ITR we had to complete the phase 2 vs furbarll.

and this is clear in my mind, some people may not understand
because they were not harmed, so it is easy to think what happened to me is right, but is not

[Onizuka]

Your feedback has been noted multiple times already.

Please stop posting about it, as I've already asked you before.

[Onizuka]

Yay Trials are over.

More Suggestions and Feedback

Specifics:

Phase 1:
-More opinions on lack of really doing anything.
-Possible suggestions of new things to do (Take into consideration: Brawl)

Phase 2
Masters:
-If I run trials again a Master Tournament will 99.99% not be happening. Maybe a round robin or something. Will need to work out times and stuff. Suggestions welcome.
-How did you feel the deck building rules were? About shards only being allowed in the 3rd game? Would it have been preferred if it was just limited to 1 game? Should have probably made them tighter. Didn't intend for 2 opposite elements to be able to be used in g5 deck.

Challengers:
-How did you feel the deck building rules were? How did they feel against multiple people of the same element?
-Matchups in off element. 4th Trials had only in, 5th trials had in+opp, 6th had in+random other, 7th had in+random other. Do you feel like repeat element vs elements should be manually avoided in the future? Or that it should be restricted to just opp or just in? Is it fine to do the same elements as previous trials as long as the deck building rules are different enough? How do you feel about elements that basically can steamroll other elements (See: Fire vs Gravity this Trials)? Do you think this should be avoided?
-Banning cards: How was it? How did you feel about both in element and off element bans? How do you feel about being able to ban a shard with only you wanting to? How about banning an other card?
-How did you feel that you could use a mono for every game?
-Banning an alchemy card banned the nymph. Should the same have applied if you banned the nymph (alchemy card banned)? How did you feel about this?

Overall
-How do you feel about other counting as in element? Should there be a limit to how many can count?
-How do you feel about how shards were handled? Masters was limited to one game each match, while challengers could ban any shard they want by voting for it once (with other card bans requiring 2 votes to take effect)?

Phase 3:
-This will probably not change much. There were some interesting vote numbers sometimes (amount of votes in one trial vs another). But I doubt there would be a change from onsite polls to something like gdocs+a forum PM saying you sent it or something.
-The amount of points will probably not change much unless how they are calculated changes as well.
-How do you feel about a reduction in time (say, 4/5 days instead of 7 for Phase 3)?
-How do you feel about the ability to abstain by voting for a 'No vote' option?

Phase 4:
-Thoughts on odd/evens? Seemed like most people avoided it and opted to just do bans and if they had spare points use it on something.
-Thoughts on amount of bans? This time there were only like 4-5 bans available if you didn't use odd/evens.
-Thoughts on having shard bans being applied to both people? I'd prefer to not have plenty of battles having unofficial ban lists of shards.
-Thoughts on not having other count as in element?
-Thoughts on having the ability to ban mark cards? Would you use it if had cost less than a normal in element card ban?
-Thoughts on allowing the same deck to be used multiple times? (Consider: If all your decks can be beaten by 1, then the problem doesn't lie in allowing it more than once. It lies in the failure of the bans.)

General match stuff
-How do you feel about nymphs? Disregarding marks, every other card can be gotten by playing AIs. Some element matchups can change drastically depending if you/opponent have a nymph of an element or not. Should there be a limit to the amount you can use per deck or a ban?
-How do you feel about the alch/nymph ban thing? This time it only applied to Phase 2 Challenger. If next trials also had a Phase 2 banning system, how would you feel to it applying to both Phase 2 and Phase 4?
-Deck legality stuff. Should all decks be required to be PM'd to the TrO/another person (if TrO is playing) after each match?

General rules stuff+other:
-Rules should be clearer next time. More things posted in multiple places and emphasis.
-How do you feel about the disallowing of points/Phase 3 eligibility if decks weren't posted? If the system changes to having them PM'd, the same applies. Should this more lenient (decks are sent after required, get late entry into a poll (if that's possible onsite))? What about points wise if someone doesn't submit decks? Should the person who lost be awarded a win? 


Feel free to bring up stuff not mentioned in the above or stuff I haven't addressed in the thread yet. If I've already addressed it, what I've said will probably be the same.

[Dm]

Guess I'mma be the first; starting from here:

Phase 4-Thoughts on having shard bans being applied to both people? I'd prefer to not have plenty of battles having unofficial ban lists of shards.

There really is no way around it. If both people agree to the act of not banning shards, it's a waste to throw away your points. And if you give out the "If one person bans shards it's banned for both" I don't think either would want to waste points banning shards when they could spend other ban points in more important things (specially since this time, if you didn't ban even/odd you'd have a small amount of bans; this was kind of annoying. I personally wish I had more ban points, at least enough to actually get it round; for example, people banning some cards just to fill in the remaining ban points.) The shards will usually be avoided in the finals match, but of course there are people that will use it (See Earth element.)

So; Shard Bans being applied to both people would be a good idea if we had more ban points, but with the current restriction banning it is losing points and therefore losing advantage; the only way around this is to agree on not using shards (un-official ban list.)

If the "battles having unofficial ban lists of shards" is an annoyance, I think that the only way to get rid of it is to place a rule that says that using shards is not allowed in the final battle; but this raises the problem to the people that use (and abuse) it.

Phase 2-How do you feel about other counting as in element? Should there be a limit to how many can count?
Phase 4-Thoughts on not having other count as in element?

I like the phase 4 better. Other is not an element. This isn't a big problem, though.

Phase 2-Banning cards: How was it? How did you feel about both in element and off element bans? How do you feel about being able to ban a shard with only you wanting to? How about banning an other card?

As someone who just went up and banned every single shard available and nothing else, I found that this was kind of... flawed. By banning absolutely nothing except shards, I got rid of my trouble -- Neither I nor Laxa could use shards, and I didn't even need to bother thinking about what he would ban, because at that point he could write a list with 24 cards with cards from all 12 elements, and none of his bans would happen; since the bans required us both to send in the ban.

Phase 2-
-Banning an alchemy card banned the nymph. Should the same have applied if you banned the nymph (alchemy card banned)? How did you feel about this?

I just feel like pointing out that, for some reason, this was only in element (caused some confusion in my off-element Trials phase 2 matches where antimatter was banned but I used purple nymph.)

[MyNameIsJoey]

Spoiler for Hidden:

Yay Trials are over.

More Suggestions and Feedback

Specifics:

Phase 1:
-More opinions on lack of really doing anything.
-Possible suggestions of new things to do (Take into consideration: Brawl)

Phase 2
Masters:
-If I run trials again a Master Tournament will 99.99% not be happening. Maybe a round robin or something. Will need to work out times and stuff. Suggestions welcome.
-How did you feel the deck building rules were? About shards only being allowed in the 3rd game? Would it have been preferred if it was just limited to 1 game? Should have probably made them tighter. Didn't intend for 2 opposite elements to be able to be used in g5 deck.

Challengers:
-How did you feel the deck building rules were? How did they feel against multiple people of the same element?
-Matchups in off element. 4th Trials had only in, 5th trials had in+opp, 6th had in+random other, 7th had in+random other. Do you feel like repeat element vs elements should be manually avoided in the future? Or that it should be restricted to just opp or just in? Is it fine to do the same elements as previous trials as long as the deck building rules are different enough? How do you feel about elements that basically can steamroll other elements (See: Fire vs Gravity this Trials)? Do you think this should be avoided?
-Banning cards: How was it? How did you feel about both in element and off element bans? How do you feel about being able to ban a shard with only you wanting to? How about banning an other card?
-How did you feel that you could use a mono for every game?
-Banning an alchemy card banned the nymph. Should the same have applied if you banned the nymph (alchemy card banned)? How did you feel about this?

Overall
-How do you feel about other counting as in element? Should there be a limit to how many can count?
-How do you feel about how shards were handled? Masters was limited to one game each match, while challengers could ban any shard they want by voting for it once (with other card bans requiring 2 votes to take effect)?

Phase 3:
-This will probably not change much. There were some interesting vote numbers sometimes (amount of votes in one trial vs another). But I doubt there would be a change from onsite polls to something like gdocs+a forum PM saying you sent it or something.
-The amount of points will probably not change much unless how they are calculated changes as well.
-How do you feel about a reduction in time (say, 4/5 days instead of 7 for Phase 3)?
-How do you feel about the ability to abstain by voting for a 'No vote' option?

Phase 4:
-Thoughts on odd/evens? Seemed like most people avoided it and opted to just do bans and if they had spare points use it on something.
-Thoughts on amount of bans? This time there were only like 4-5 bans available if you didn't use odd/evens.
-Thoughts on having shard bans being applied to both people? I'd prefer to not have plenty of battles having unofficial ban lists of shards.
-Thoughts on not having other count as in element?
-Thoughts on having the ability to ban marks? Would you use it if had cost less than a normal in element card ban?
-Thoughts on allowing the same deck to be used multiple times? (Consider: If all your decks can be beaten by 1, then the problem doesn't lie in allowing it more than once. It lies in the failure of the bans.)

General match stuff
-How do you feel about nymphs? Disregarding marks, every other card can be gotten by playing AIs. Some element matchups can change drastically depending if you/opponent have a nymph of an element or not. Should there be a limit to the amount you can use per deck or a ban?
-How do you feel about the alch/nymph ban thing? This time it only applied to Phase 2 Challenger. If next trials also had a Phase 2 banning system, how would you feel to it applying to both Phase 2 and Phase 4?
-Deck legality stuff. Should all decks be required to be PM'd to the TrO/another person (if TrO is playing) after each match?

General rules stuff+other:
-Rules should be clearer next time. More things posted in multiple places and emphasis.
-How do you feel about the disallowing of points/Phase 3 eligibility if decks weren't posted? If the system changes to having them PM'd, the same applies. Should this more lenient (decks are sent after required, get late entry into a poll (if that's possible onsite))? What about points wise if someone doesn't submit decks? Should the person who lost be awarded a win?


Feel free to bring up stuff not mentioned in the above or stuff I haven't addressed in the thread yet. If I've already addressed it, what I've said will probably be the same.

phase 1 -
I have talked about this already. Ask for something to do, but not something that is really time consuming. just have them prove that they are actually there, that they actually care.

phase 2 -
(masters)
-What's wrong with master's tournament? Not being a master myself, I dont see what's needed to be changed, and therefore can't really comment on this.
-I liked the idea of shards in game 3, and the deckbuilding rules, adds a restricted meta and has everybody thinking.

(challengers)
-I loved the deckbuilding rules. Had us thinking, a lot, of all possibilities.
-For the battles, I dont mind facing another random element as long as everybody faces the other random element, but also, points should be given on how we placed instead of on how many games won. See per example if nils had been defending, and gravity gets roflstomped by fire, in that case it would have given an advantage to the master.
-Bans were great.
- To me, alchemy and nymph should be counted as the same card. ban one, and the other follows.

(Overall)
-While i did use it to my advantage, i disapprove of other being counted as in element. You could literally make a legal deck with 0 in element card.
- I liked the use of shards. Seemed perfect to me.

Phase 3
- I am for the time reduction to 5 days.
- I am for a no vote option.

Phase 4
- Odd/Evens was a nice idea. I personally didn't use it, but looking back, if it had to be done again i would.

General Rules Stuff
- You should make a 24 hour delay between phase 2 and phase 3 ,to let time for everyone to post their decks.

I answered to the points i felt were worth answering/ i had something to answer to.

[Onizuka]

I prefer the master tournament to not extend into Phase 3 and not start during Phase 1. This Phase 2 was given 13 days, and the minimum amount of matches you could play was 4. The max would be 7. Unless Phase 2 time is extended, there is basically no time for someone who has to trek through the lower bracket to the top to finish in 13 days (thankfully Jenkar got through quickly).

So for mostly that reason I dislike having a Master Tournament. There's also getting 2 hard counter opps out of the gate and then getting low amount of points. And it's probably slightly unfair to the masters that lose twice to not have the extra ability to gain phase 2 points compared to a challenger that fails twice. And byes are evil and I dislike having to go around getting people who aren't defending to play to make things more fair.


About Phase 2 bannings: Intent was that if you had 1 in element opp and you only sent in 1 from each, the other card would be random'd. This should have been clearer. The alchemy thing not applying to off element was because you couldn't ban a creature of their element. Decided to just blanket it for all alchemy cards instead of having it affect 11/12 of them.


About shards in Phase 4: Gave me an interesting idea on a way to deal with shards in final battle.