7th Trials - Phase 2 - Challengers' Battles

[Vangelios]

 After the duel "has" it post the deks  immediately or you can wait until the last minute of the last day?

[Onizuka]

However, for off-element battles (which is the majority for me: 3 out of 4), the banned cards are decided right before the match via chat-PM. This means, that we are practically forced to speed-build the decks, which could easily lead to illegal decks.

The only other alternative is to build a large number of 5-deck chains and then based on what 3 cards the opponent bans, drop the ones that use any of those cards and pick from the rest.

I would prefer to be prepared rather than speed-build, but I'm not sure I can prepare enough decks to guarantee that a chain-of-5 will always survive the ban-list no matter what my opponent picks.

So, what I'm trying to suggest is to settle the ban-list for off-element battles ahead of time via forum-PMs, rather than doing it on-the-spot when we meet for battle as that would lead to speed-building and illegal decks.

If the banning of 3 cards from opponents and three that you control makes you build illegal decks....?

To clarify: Are off-element match bans banned for both parties?

Yes.

So let's get this clear.

Problem number 1 : I can build a legal deck that doesn't even have my trials elements in it?

Problem number 2 : Last two rules are conflicting. How can it be "at least 50%" if the max of off-element cards is "up to 9"? Pretty sure 21/30 isn't 50%, and that's the least.

If you want an entire deck of QPs and other weapon cards, knock yourself out.

Up to 9 fire, up to 9 water in the same deck etc. etc. etc.

After the duel "has" it post the deks  immediately or you can wait until the last minute of the last day?

Preferably after you finish all your matches, but if you want me to have to wait to move to Phase 3 then by all means post it the last second of Phase 2.

[andretimpa]

I expect a level of trust from participants that when they use an element they won't try to hide that they were or include 1 card of an off element simply to be able to push through an element. I should be able to figure out when an element is pushed through based on decks, but including what you pushed through after each game in the battle report thread would be nice.

I don't see the problem here, you'd be putting dead cards in your deck, sacrificing how many off-element cards you are using and throwing away an element to have a better chance at the following matches.

[Cheesy111]

I expect a level of trust from participants that when they use an element they won't try to hide that they were or include 1 card of an off element simply to be able to push through an element. I should be able to figure out when an element is pushed through based on decks, but including what you pushed through after each game in the battle report thread would be nice.

I don't see the problem here, you'd be putting dead cards in your deck, sacrificing how many off-element cards you are using and throwing away an element to have a better chance at the following matches.

The problem is that people could put in one aether pillar to push through aether without their opponent knowing.

[rob77dp]

Spoiler for Cheesy's quote is central to my reply...:

I expect a level of trust from participants that when they use an element they won't try to hide that they were or include 1 card of an off element simply to be able to push through an element. I should be able to figure out when an element is pushed through based on decks, but including what you pushed through after each game in the battle report thread would be nice.

I don't see the problem here, you'd be putting dead cards in your deck, sacrificing how many off-element cards you are using and throwing away an element to have a better chance at the following matches.

The problem is that people could put in one aether pillar to push through aether without their opponent knowing.

However, that player would then have burned an element (Aether) for the entire match just to push through it.  Right?  It seems that trade-off along with a desire (c'mon, a Master or Trial'er should have enough of this to play fair) to be a good sport would prevent that level of "abuse" of the rules.

[regen2k9]

Spoiler for Cheesy's quote is central to my reply...:

I expect a level of trust from participants that when they use an element they won't try to hide that they were or include 1 card of an off element simply to be able to push through an element. I should be able to figure out when an element is pushed through based on decks, but including what you pushed through after each game in the battle report thread would be nice.

I don't see the problem here, you'd be putting dead cards in your deck, sacrificing how many off-element cards you are using and throwing away an element to have a better chance at the following matches.

The problem is that people could put in one aether pillar to push through aether without their opponent knowing.

However, that player would then have burned an element (Aether) for the entire match just to push through it.  Right?  It seems that trade-off along with a desire (c'mon, a Master or Trial'er should have enough of this to play fair) to be a good sport would prevent that level of "abuse" of the rules.

Is it allowed though?  For many people, it doesn't matter if it's fair, right, just, etc.  All that matters (and I'm not saying this is me, I'm just saying that some people think this way) is if it's allowed or not.  Also, if it's not allowed, is there a minimum number of off-element cards from any given element?  I imagine some people might run into trouble with this rule if they splash in a QP rainbow/trio/quad.

[rob77dp]

In element matches

• Shards are limited to 4 per deck, in a maximum of two decks

Two decks meaning two decks which have at least 1 card different or two games (even if the same deck is used)?  Follow-up:  if the former is intending meaning, then does using same cards but varying what is upgraded count as a "card different"?

Off Element Battles

• Before every match you and your opponent chat message someone not in either one of your elements, nor facing it 3 cards. These cards are banned for both you and your opponent. You may only ban 1 card from your opponent's element, and it may not be a creature.

Is "it" (in the yellow, adjacent above) referring to the maximum 1 card that can be banned from opponent's element or all 3 bans being chosen?


**Edit 1:  Format for clarity and addition of 2nd inquiry.  **

[Onizuka]

It is currently allowed.

Are people concerned about it happening?

To above: Changing it to 2 games. 2 games is the intended meaning.

[Onizuka]

'After every game, you must tell your opponent what elements you used in the previous game.'


After talking it out a bit, this rule has been added.


If for whatever reason this changes your strategy feel free to send in new bans. If it doesn't but you still want to send in new bans, feel free to. Please note if you are resending, though.

[neuroleptics]

Is it allowed though?  For many people, it doesn't matter if it's fair, right, just, etc.  All that matters (and I'm not saying this is me, I'm just saying that some people think this way) is if it's allowed or not.  Also, if it's not allowed, is there a minimum number of off-element cards from any given element?  I imagine some people might run into trouble with this rule if they splash in a QP rainbow/trio/quad.

Max: 9 but no minimum (put this because honesty can be an issue here). Abuse is possible, it would be a duo with just one off-element pillar/ pend/ mark card.  However, putting 9 and not drawing is impossible, putting just one and not drawing throughout the game is entirely possible and noticeable.  Anyhow, you can't just do it that way, push through just to play another element means you waste a chance on playing a certain element and the push through elements if easily countered by opponent's aides will = useless. So, why take such idiotic move? Unless one has calculated it so perfectly....

[TribalTrouble]

Wait so if we use an element in our deck we can't use it in another deck in the same match?
Can we use it in a later match?

[rob77dp]

Wait so if we use an element in our deck we can't use it in another deck in the same match?

Not.  Sure.  If serious?

If serious, it is quite plain in the main rules post:

If you use an element, you cannot use it again

Also, I am inferring from the context in the Rules that it means per match (note:  it HAS to be per match, meaning best-of-5, or else you cannot build proper decks for 4 matches that could be 5 games each totalling possibly 20 games!).