5th Trials - Suggestions and Feedback

[Sevs]

I think there should be a limit on in element bans, at least for next year, Lets say in the air earth matchup, if earth banned Dragon, wyrm, and firefly, Air is stuck with UG and off element attackers. Same with earth if golems, dragons, and graboid were banned, you've got antlions and stalling as means to win.

Im glad to see this wasnt a major problem this trials but i can imagine it could get worse.

Aether without immortal, phase dragon or recluse
Darkness without vampire, dragon, and gargoyle.

[xdude]

I think there should be a limit on in element bans, at least for next year, Lets say in the air earth matchup, if earth banned Dragon, wyrm, and firefly, Air is stuck with UG and off element attackers. Same with earth if golems, dragons, and graboid were banned, you've got antlions and stalling as means to win.

Im glad to see this wasnt a major problem this trials but i can imagine it could get worse.

Aether without immortal, phase dragon or recluse
Darkness without vampire, dragon, and gargoyle.

Seconded. Although for the Darkness one - Pestal.

[deuce22]

I think there should be a limit on in element bans, at least for next year, Lets say in the air earth matchup, if earth banned Dragon, wyrm, and firefly, Air is stuck with UG and off element attackers. Same with earth if golems, dragons, and graboid were banned, you've got antlions and stalling as means to win.

Im glad to see this wasnt a major problem this trials but i can imagine it could get worse.

Aether without immortal, phase dragon or recluse
Darkness without vampire, dragon, and gargoyle.

However, the majority of aether decks don't use aether creatures. Banning dims, lightnings, and fractals with only 6-off element for support could have been very ugly.

But I agree, there should be a limit on in-element bans.

[~Napalm]

I feel like this was kev's way of testing the community. Rather than force a limit of in-element bans, we could just have Masters who *pauses to reflect upon delicate wording* are willing to make the right decision.

[MrBlonde]

Yeah i agree that there should be a limit on in-element bans but as a whole i think the masters were very gracious. Personally i let my challengers decide what bans they wanted as i wanted them to get as many points as possible. They asked me if i could ban certain cards and after reviewing their selections i agreed to them. If they had chosen 3 in-element cards i would not have submitted those.

Also for my challenger bans i chose cards i would likely ban from them in the finals just to see what decks they would make. =)

[Higurashi]

As per kev's request, I'm pasting the relevant chatlog pertaining to the discussion on 6 off-element cards in Trials compared to 9 off-element cards.

[17:26:44] Higurashi: Well, there's obviously much more to it than mono strength.

[17:27:42] Higurashi: Strength in this case refers to two things: diversity and offensive power in the element. I, as an Aether user, lack the latter and have to take it from other elements. But when doing so, I still want support cards from that element. Example: Fractix. I need Explosions and enough MP's to draw 'em.

[17:28:51] Higurashi: An element like Water doesn't lack the latter, so it can take only support cards from another element. Then you don't need more than 6.
[17:29:10] Higurashi: So, it skews the favour to elements with many options for offensive power in-element.

[17:29:41] Higurashi: That's not even my personal grief though; I just hate the reduced consistency and increased impact of RNG.

[17:40:04] kevkev60614: back. Higs, I see everything you're saying. Upped mono some elements are stronger than others. The more off-element cards added, the more fair it is. 0 < 6 < 9 < 30. And I get you chose 9 specifically because you feel it expands your abilities in a way 6 doesn't come close to.

[17:41:17] Higurashi: While it also doesn't give you too much wiggle room, kev. Like 15 would (from War).

[UTAlan]

My suggestion for Tie Breakers would be the following:

If 2 challengers are tied, their head-to-head record determines the winner.
If 3 or more challengers are tied, the players with the most game* losses are eliminated until 2 challengers remain. Their head-to-head record determines the winner.

* As opposed to match losses.


This would take away the possibility of multiple tie breakers being needed for a single element's challengers, and also place some importance on winning 3-0 instead of 3-1 or 3-2.

[Onizuka]

I personally prefer trial by battle. Playing my opponents from only one set and then tying, I rather settle the score and use my new found knowledge on how they play/etc and attempt to win. Obviously if it continues for too long (Continual equal scores) your suggestion is good too.

[UTAlan]

Talked to kev and he said the method I suggested is used if there is a tiebreaker a second time around. I'm good with that. I just didn't like the idea of perpetual rematches.

[Hyroen]

In these 5th Trials, Air has 2 contenders, Jenkar and I. Earth has 4 contenders.
This means that all 6 of us had 5 matches to complete.

I managed to defeat all 4 Earth contenders and Jenkar has lost against at least 3, however managed to defeat me thanks to R.N.Jesus, who unfortunately wasn't on my side in this 1 match.

Due to this one match, we both received 6 points in Phase 2. Does this look unfair to anyone else? u_u (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,36521.msg490088#msg490088)

Maybe the total amount of wins each contender acquires should also be a factor in the total amount of points one receives at the end. It could even possibly have a greater weight than the current rank system.

What do you guys think?

[Jenkar]

I'm maybe biased, but - In my opinion
Winning vs your own element is different than winning vs element X.

I think that the Scoring system should be 1 point for each match won in off element battles - this avoid the silly case of me being able to win two points without winning any off element battle.

[UTAlan]

I think that the Scoring system should be 1 point for each match won in off element battles - this avoid the silly case of me being able to win two points without winning any off element battle.

Or possibly a different scoring scale for 2 or 3 challengers than the one for 4 challengers.

2 Challengers:

1st	4 points
2nd	0 points

3 Challengers:

1st	4 points
2nd	2 points
3rd	0 points

(Although this doesn't really address Hyroen's point...)