Weekly Tournament - September 16th - Matching Chromatics - Unupgraded

[shockcannon]

there is a third option, tros join and you fellow chaps stop complaining about bugger all

only in this tournament:
1 insignificant asked to see my deck after losing g1 for a reason unbeknownst to me, first time it happened to me (still used the same exact deck another 2 times)
2 shock tried to force a replay with an invalid screenshot after claiming to have won a very hard matchup

u all are great people, but it's the third time this week i say u should relax about this game
it's getting impossible have fun all together, there is always some sorta of tension when if u win = u are lucky u didn't deserve it, u lose = tos have advantage, x card used by your opponent should be banned, rules sucks

totally not a personal attack, i am the first to rage but at least i do it when things aren't fair for everyone, no matter if u are a vet or a new player

Ay mate, you're such a joker.

I pm'ed you with the screenshot of the win screen and saying sorry that it was the win screen because I forgot shard of void applies its ability before the attack phase. I had a black nymph and vampire stilleto out but you still had 9 health so I thought I had one more turn before I won and miscalculated. Regardless, the following two screenshots prove WITHOUT A DOUBT that I won our game due to the date, the time elapsed in game, and the fact that a 0 spin 0 electrum win can only be PvP Duel. The only reason that screenshot is considered an "invalid screenshot" is because some TO arbitrarily decided it would be a long time ago and that rule hasn't changed since. In fact the tournament rules don't even explicitly state that a screenshot of the victory screen is invalid, rather it's up to TO decision. However, both you and Naii thought it was considered outright invalid in the rules and as a result Naii left the decision up to you, which is also not in the rules.

As for winning "a very hard matchup," I will admit if our decks played each other 200 times mine would lose around 80-90% of the time. But given the draws we had that game I thought it was almost impossible for me to lose. I had a black nymph to shutdown your nymph's abilities and I had multiple drain life's in my hand. I could've screen-shotted every single turn but that's really not the point of these games, is it?

Spoiler for screenshots:

I say it again. You're such a joker, chap.

I wasn't going to make a post about this because it's inconsequential and doesn't affect anyone else. I agree with you that all this arguing really ruins the fun of these tournaments. I simply stated I was forfeiting at the time and I wished you good luck with your games and that was the end.

Moderator Comment

Edited.

[Manuel]

i know i wasn't 100% forced, but it was almost automatic for my brain showing it and try to be somewhat gentle, also we started one round before the other players and i tried to be quick as possible; what i said to weaboo it was more ironic than anything

i'm not rude, i am using a language that isn't mine, is hard try to seem happy/gentle or any other emotive feeling

@shock

3.5 - Desync and Disconnect
If you and your opponent get disconnected in the middle of a game, you both have the opportunity to finish the game against your opponent's AI. If you are winning, create a print screen of the final turn and send it to the TO. If both players claim to have won, but only one of them has a picture of it, the one with the picture wins.
Print screens different from the final turn (for example, images from the victory screen) may not be accepted, and they will be evaluated case by case by the TOs.

no one will ever accept that screenshot, u can't see if is a desynch with bugs or a simply time out
i win against your ai, i have no idea on what happened in your side but i won (showing the screen), since the matchup was really hard for u i really don't see how u could have won even with ai not able to play well my deck (i had death pends to turn into nymphs but i have no idea how much of them i had in play, in my final screen i have 4 death nymphs), it was really strange your "winning so fast" with a sov deck, add this to your request to ban all the nymphs some weeks ago, how much are the chances that all this happen?
in the very impossible remote case u won, my ai replaced me before playing my nt on a pillar or drawing my other queens, so even with a valid screenshot probably i was able to claim the (deserved) win for the ai missplaying badly

there was no reason to left the tournament

i think is really necessary add examples of what is a last turn screenshot with an image of it and decide on this timestamp time thing in the official rules

[shockcannon]

My game took 19 turns. That's not a fast win. I played black nymph the turn we disconnected, so unless my AI misplayed and wasted quanta on vampire stilleto or dusk mantle when both were already in play I don't really how see how you could've nymph rushed me. Black nymph removes all your abilities and you can't use abilities the turn a creature is played. You would've had to save up multiple nymphs or nymph tears, at which point your rush would be considerably slowed. I had dusk mantle, luciferins, drain lifes, vampire stilleto, and black nymph, lasting 19 turns was not really that hard.

But whatever, I guess the lesson learned is screenshot every single turn when you disconnect and then abuse the TOs and ruling system.

[ddevans96]

in the very impossible remote case u won...

Sure, shockcannon's screenshots, according to the current tournament rules, are not enough to prove a win on his side and thus allow for a replay. I think that's fair.

But they're enough for a court of public opinion. Either you're saying he's lying, and ignoring the screenshots he has that do prove a win - not in the way tournament rules accept, but in the way a reasonable public might interpret it - or you're saying he's doctoring the screenshots, by editing them and/or creating new ones.

Regardless, this is getting dangerously close to accusation territory. If you're prepared for that, by all means, proceed - if not, speaking from experience, letting it go might be worth considering.

[Manuel]

Black nymph removes all your abilities and you can't use abilities the turn a creature is played

if u do it before i play my queen yes, u can slow me down forcing me to wait for 2 nymphs but u never did it, u had it in your hand or u draw it after?

As for winning "a very hard matchup," I will admit if our decks played each other 200 times mine would lose around 80-90% of the time

when you disconnect and then abuse the TOs and ruling system

u can only choose one of these

ddevans i didn't make any accusation, i can't be sure on what happened on his side without a screen, if the ai really take my place never playing nymph's tears or queen he totally won for the ai not playing my deck correctly like i intended (ai will play nt ONLY on death pends, rather than in the water), like i said the part u cut

u are the first guy to say things like "fake screenshot" in this thread, all i am accusing is the ai not playing my deck

i really don't understand the part about public opinion and the rule thing, if u are saying the rules are outdated so they have a really small margin of sportmanship that should be showed by players, it's my deck that can't be played correctly by ai

[ddevans96]

i really don't understand the part about public opinion and the rule thing, if u are saying the rules are outdated so they have a really small margin of sportmanship that should be showed by players

No, the rules are fine. You should have to have in-game screenshots (personally, I think both timing out and winning turn) to be able to claim a win on your side - that way the game state can be analyzed and TOs can make a ruling if one side had a decisive advantage over the other. He didn't provide those, so a TO ruled that he lost. That's all fair, as far as I'm concerned.

But this became a public issue - and for those purposes, it's not about rules or sportsmanship. While shockcannon's screenshots fall outside the rules, any player checking the timestamps can tell he won on his side.

Which gets us to:

ddevans i didn't make any accusation

To say 'in the very impossible remote case u won...' after someone posts screenshots in an attempt to prove that they won is accusing them of lying. It doesn't matter what you wrote after that, that wording is inherently accusatory. I'm sure you didn't mean it, but that's how it is.

it's my deck that can't be played correctly by ai

Most decks can't be played correctly by AI. That's why the screenshot rules exist.


Anyways...TOs ruled in your favor and you won not only the match, but the tournament. Why did this need to become a public issue in the first place? It's really immature and disappointing to see from someone who represents a twelfth of the community now. Hold yourself to higher standards, because everyone else is.

[Manuel]

Why did this need to become a public issue in the first place? 

i'll pm u

[TheonlyrealBeef]

In Manuel's defense: ai does not properly NT water pillars/pends. As long as you have more queens than the opponent has Black Nymphs and at least one water pillar/pend, LS-ing them will backfire badly. SoV makes backfiring less of an issue.

That the ai cannot properly NT water quanta is extremely frustrating. Your win screen screenshot fails to show how badly the ai may have misplayed.

[shockcannon]

And AI properly plays with having multiple shields and weapons in hand? No, it wastes quanta playing a shield or weapon it already has. Does AI properly play with drain life's? No it uses them immediately even if it doesn't kill the creature instead of waiting. Does AI properly use black nymph's liquid shadow or does it use liquid shadow on itself to gain healing? It goes both ways. This is it for me though as far as talking about this. Like I said, this was a private issue that really should've ended during the tournament. TO made a final call and I accepted it without arguing. I only bring this up because multiple times it was mentioned that I "tried to force a replay with an invalid screenshot in an un-winnable game." That's look bad on me and is border line slander and I think I have a right to defend myself. I posted all the screenshot PM's from that tournament so you can judge yourself, but I've said what I wanted to in order to clarify any unknowns.

[Submachine]

Tournament Organizer Note

Players can ask for a legality check during the tournament. The check can be done either by the player or any available TO. However, it is the other player's decision whether to show it to the player or a TO. After analyzing the information from witnesses, I conclude that this rule was not broken.

We apologize if the wording was not clear and will do our best to clarify each rule.

3.3 - Deck Legality Check
Before you start your match with your opponent, you can ask him to save all his used decks during the duels. If your opponent asks you to save your decks, you must accept it. After the match has ended, you can ask him to show either you or the Tournament Organizer his decks for a legality check. If you miss doing so and later it turns out that you lost against an illegal deck, you won't have the chance to claim the win any more.

I would like to call attention to two specific parts from Rule 3.5.

3.5 - Desync and Disconnect
If you and your opponent get disconnected in the middle of a game, you both have the opportunity to finish the game against your opponent's AI. If you are winning, create a print screen of the final turn and send it to the TO. If both players claim to have won, but only one of them has a picture of it, the one with the picture wins.
Print screens different from the final turn (for example, images from the victory screen) may not be accepted, and they will be evaluated case by case by the TOs.
NOTE: If you don't know how to take a screenshot, click HERE.

When a desync error happens, the match gets restarted, unless it was very clear who was going to win. We are hoping that players are honest about this, but if there is a dispute, the TO will decide the outcome. Players are not allowed to change their decks or marks when a match gets restarted.

If a game is won against the AI, we must require proof to prevent other players abusing the system. We understand that losing a winning game because of a rule is uncomfortable, but we hope our players understand that we cannot allow the possibility of other players nullifying their opponent's valid victory and making the tournament longer after losing to the AI.

I would also like to point out that TOs will not rule a win in most cases, because the win must really be very clear. If there is even a slight chance that both players can win, the duel must be restarted, unless an agreement is made between the players.

Please keep all conversations civil and stick to the Forum Rules. Especially keep in mind the rule about flaming.

Flaming: Do not post any messages that harass, insult (name calling), belittle, threaten or mock other members. Debates are fine, but critique the opinion, not the person. Personal attacks are not permitted.

I went back and modified posts that targeted specific people instead of their opinions.

If a dispute comes up, please do not start a public argument. Instead, notify a moderator who will privately handle the issue with all involved parties.

[iancudorinmarian]

Can y'all just chill the heck out?

[Submachine]

No worries. The dispute is over and conclusions are made. Further comments on the issue should be made in private messages.