Starting vault

[Belthazar666]

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Deck to go against life. Titanium shields block their low damage creatures, earthquake and reverse time hinder their dragons/duo element. Graboids damage with fate eggs. Reverse time also reset spirits that are growing.

[Belthazar666]

I call this one - Distorted time.

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My version of "Scrambled Shriekers" turned time. May need a bit of tweaking, I'm testing it now.

[senabmi]

Are there better opponents to test decks on besides AI3s? Anyway here's some of my deck ideas.

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55q 55q 55q 55q 55q 55q 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rj 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rm 5rm 5rm 5rm 5rm 5rmA simple aggro, but the momentums help to weaken CC(lightning/rage potions) and get past phase shields, which are common time counters.

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Also, other elements seem to like using poison against us, so we probably need some decent counters to that...
By the way, fate eggs now give 3.51|4.04 on average, compared to 3.83|3.92 before recent updates. 

[valuka]

Hi all,

I have tested 3 decks, i think they are effective enough

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And this is not too good but with luck is good:

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[valuka]

Starting Vault NON  Cards about 111...     I think some need to take a real look at what we need,  Time lacks  "CC" and "PC" we need those types of card in our vault.  I think we need to focus more on using  creatures and other Elements to control the field.  I would assume we are taking 18++ Devonian Dragons, Anubis, Pharaoh's, Etc... 

Here's a list of some card options for the vault, hopefully we all can discuss why some cards should be in the vault,  why others should be cut, and the # of "starting" copies.  This is just a starting point.   Which needs major tweaking.

  Lighting Bolt 10
  Dim Shield 12                                           
  Fractal 8
  Lobo  2  (starting vault or salvage them)
  mindgate 4 ( starting vault or salvage them)

  Deflags 10
  Rage Potion 12
  Phoenix 6
  Fire Bolt 6
  Fire Shield 2

  Graboid 12
  Enchant Artifact 8
  Earthquake 8
  Titanium Shield 2 (Its just a sexy shield) (but do we need it in the starting vault?)

  Pandemonium 8  (chaos seed is cheap but is pande better option for swarm/hope decks?)
  Anti-matter 8
  ButterFly Effect 2 (High cost but an option for PC)
  Discord 3 (Devastating if played early)

  Wings 4
  Shock 6
  Fog Shield 2 (fodder for wings)

  Poison 6
  Arsenic 2
  Bone Wall 3
  Plague 3 (Swarm/hope CC, prolly salvage)
 
   Devourer 6
  Vampire Stiletto 2
  Steal 6
  Liquid Shadow 4 (ability control or play on our dragon for HP gain)

  36 cards
  36 cards
  30 cards
  21 card
  12 cards
  14 cards
  18 cards
   ------------
    167 total cards  GASP!!  167 > 111

This is not too bad, but maybe some suggestions:
i think we dont need:
Mindgate 4 (useless in duo decks against other color)
Pandemonium 8 (i think this is very dangorous and the effect is not 100% )
Bone Wall 3 (with Time is too heavy to build deck with this)
This is 15 cards:
Maybe change this with more Discords ( only this can broke one deck in the early game)
Momentum (not in the list)
Miracle (not in the list.)

[Brion]

I was just wondering... when will we make our acctual vault??

[Immolation]

Just made a Gravity/Time Scarab Stall.

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You use Armagios to stall while you get plenty of scarabs and devonian dragons out. Would do well against earth or light.

[Smokefree]

Basically Valuka,  I just plopped a bunch of CONTROL cards down in like 5mins and put some notes and numbers next to them.    This is all about discussion and a starting point for the Vault. 
Maybe the we can get a partial list of Definite cards in the that will be in the vault.  Im sure the vault is atleast 1/2 done allready.

Momentum will be needed if where going dunescorp stall. Otherwise i think scorps are too slow.
 But im personally not a fan of buff decks.  You play 2 cards they kill it in one.

I seem to have missed Purify and Freezes.

[Xinef]

We definitely should take momentum+dune scorpions to make less predictable decks. Otherwise we'd be vulnerable to anti-dragon anti-pharaoh CC. It might work eg. against aether and RoL+hope (and fractal decks in general).

As for the counter cards, don't forget Holy Flash. It was the bane of and in the previous war.

By the way, this is our vault from the previous war:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,6871.msg81276#msg81276

And these are the 11 decks we used as the basis of our vault:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,6871.msg86612#msg86612

I guess we could try making some gravity and death decks for this war too, and replace the worst of these decks with better, newer ideas.

[Belthazar666]

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Dune scorp deck with miracles/holy light for healing, dragons for a damage burst and sundial to stall as well as get an extra draw. Works quite nice, better than I expected.

[Dragoon]

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I like this deck.  You might be able to get away with replacing the 3 Fate Eggs with 2 Dragons and another Pendulum.  It may be more reliable.  Having 2 EQs seems weak to me.  Chances are good you're not gonna draw one till mid-game.  By then, it's effectiveness is reduced.  To play up the EQ+RT combo you would need more EQs.  The shields are great and very useful against Life swarms, but I wonder if replacing them with EQs would be better?  EQs ruin many a plan.  Titanium Shields are only effective against creature spam.  So maybe something like this:

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I'm not sure about this deck.  The Dragons+Discords seems pretty expensive to pay for with just a Mark and Novas.  (Edit: Silly me saw Pendulums and thought Pillars.)  Also, you need 3 Novas to pay for 1 EQ.  Needing 2 Novas to pay for a card/ability is already pushing the limits to me.  I also don't think we need FWs for just 3 weapons.  But then you'd only have 3 damage dealers.  Even with 5 damage dealers, it'll still take you a while to actually kill them.  But that's just my opinion looking at it.  I've not tested it.

Are there better opponents to test decks on besides AI3s? Anyway here's some of my deck ideas.

Yes, other Time members.

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This deck is pretty good.  I may drop the Lightning and replace it with a second Fog Shield or another Blessing since you have CC through the Scarabs.  I might also tweak the Pendulum/Pillar ratio.  What kind of deck is this designed to beat?

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I'm simple, so I like simple decks.    But in all seriousness, using Momentum for the dual purpose of overcoming single RPs/Lightnings and Phase Shields is great.  I might consider going with just 4 straight RTs instead of having the 1 shield.  But it would probably depend on who we were playing.

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I like the idea of Mutation+Eternity.  The Butterfly Effect+Deja Vu is nice as well.  Plus you can use the Deja Vu as Mutation fodder if they don't have creatures.  I would probably go with a third Eternity over the shield though.  And I'm not sure about using this against Gravity since they have Otyughs.  Deja Vus don't like Otys.

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Another good deck that's similar to one I made.  Novas are a nice touch to pay for Chrysaoras and the Sundials ability.  This is my speed version that uses both Sundials and Precogs to draw through your deck like crazy:

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Looks pretty decent.  Early Dune Scorpions can be really painful.  I wonder though if you have enough stalling and damage to kill them first?  This would probably be good against other stall decks that don't have a lot of punch.

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Quanta Denial is a strong tactic for us since we have RT to make the denial even more painful.  So we definitely need a Devourer deck.  It seems though that you're producing a lot of Darkness quanta that you aren't using.  Plus you only have 3 damage dealers.  Maybe add Dragons or Drain Lifes to use all that Darkness quanta?  I also would go with 6 RTs and drop the Precogs.  Maybe we could make this into more of a quanta denial deck with decent firepower:

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52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52q 52q 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rj 5rj 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rm 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rpI have a Death/Time deck I made below.

So I decided to start working on some counter deck ideas for each element.

Counter Decks

I readily admit that some of my decks might suck.  Some things look great on paper but when you actually try it against a real person it completely fails.  I've tested these decks against AI3 to make sure the decks work and aren't prone to bad draws, but since AI3 is not what they are designed to beat, my testing is pretty limited.

Aether- Phase Shield Stalls & Fractal Aggros
We probably won't see Phase Shields from them since deck-out is not a strong option against Time.

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Air- Wing Stalls, UG+Heavy CC
We probably won't see Flying Weapon decks since we have RT.  There's also a decent chance they'll avoid using expensive creatures like Dragons and FFQ because of RT.  But that still leaves Wyrms and FFs as well as UGs.  Plus we have to contend with all the Shockwaves and OEs.

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5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rq 5rq 5rq 5rq 5rq 5t2 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 622 622 622 622 622 63aScarabs are airborne and will hit through Wings.  Fractal helps to compensate for all their CC.  Also Scarabs will be able to eat their cheaper creatures fairly quickly.

Darkness- Fractal Devourers/Vampires, Quanta Denial (Discord+Devourers+Lycans or Devourer+EQ+Gargoyles),
They'll probably avoid combo decks like Adrenaline Vampires or RP'd Voodoo Dolls.  They may try to use nightmare against us to slow our drawing ability down.  We can expect Steals since we have several dangerous permanents and probably Liquid Shadow to stop Flying Eternity and all our creatures with abilities.  Otherwise, I'd guess Quanta Denial by Discord+Devourers+Lycans or Devourer+EQ+Gargoyles.
   Also, I wouldn't be surprised if they avoided using a lot of their Darkness creatures the whole first round just because they're probably expecting to see a lot of Holy Lights . . . at least that's what I would do if I were on Darkness.  Death has Poison which negates the CC advantage Holy Light gives.  Therefore teams are less likely to pack Holy Light against them.  Darkness doesn't really have that kind of out.  So they'll probably get the brunt of the Holy Light decks.  Honestly, I'm not sure if we should use a Holy Light deck or not.  It really depends on how strategic they are planning.  I know Kael's not much of a deck-builder or PvPer, so if it were just him I'd say go for a Holy Light deck.  But others may be smart enough to plan around it.  I said all of that to say, I have no clue what to do, but here's an idea:

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Death- Poison Stalls/Rush, Mummy Aggro
Poison gets around any kind of stall deck we can make unless we also pack Purifies.  They also used a Discord/Antimatter/Poison/Mummy deck last time.  So what if we went with an Immolation deck?

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Earth- Poison+Stone Skin Stall, Quanta Denial, Miracle+Stone Skin Stall, Scrambled Shrieker
Earth is gonna be tough again.  They just have so many options that they are good at executing!  They can go for stalling or rushing.  They can heal and control both your creatures and quanta.  We'll probably need a couple decks we can use against them and hope that we pick the right one for each fight.
   I don't think Scrambled Shriekers will be used against us since it relies on Flying Weapons and we have RT.  We probably will face the Poison or Miracle Stall.  We should put in at least one Eternity to out-last them.  The main problem though will be healing ourselves as they slowly whittle our HP away with Poison or flying Morning Glories.

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58o 58o 590 590 590 590 590 590 593 593 593 593 593 593 5aa 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rm 5rm 5rm 5rm 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2This is one of the fastest decks we have.  6 Graboids and 4 Dragons make for a very strong offense.  EQs are to keep them from stalling with Stone Skins and Miracles.  QI is 4.5 for Earth because we need to be able to play Graboids and EQ early.  Time is a little higher at 6.5 QI, but it works out pretty well still.  Using all 4 pillars and pendulums to minimize the effect of EQs used against us.

Entropy- Quanta Denial (Discord+Devourer+Lycan or Discord+Black Hole+Dragons), Dissipation Stall+Heavy CC


Fire- Poison+Bolt, Quint'd Spirits, creature spam
They probably won't use Immolation decks thanks to our RT.  Also, they'll probably avoid using Golems for the same reason.  But even without those two cards Fire is still fast.  Also because most people don't think about needing PC against Fire, they can sneak in those pesky Phase Shields to completely stop any assault.

Gravity- Quanta Denial (Discord+BH+Chargers/Dragons or BH+EQ/Devourer+Chargers/Dragons), Quint'd Firemasters and Otys
Fortunately, Gravity is one of those elements that can't rush.  All their creatures have horrible cost-to-attack ratios.  But because of this you can bet on them slowing their opponents down with quanta denial tactics and pretty heavy CC.  Fortunately we probably don't have to worry about Firemasters, Chimeras, and Plated Otys because of RT.

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Life- Fractal Frogs, FFQ spam, Life Aggro+Healing/Thorn Carapace
Life is a fast element like Fire.  And Thorn Carapace is a killer shield.

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Light- Miracle+Flying Morning Star decks, UG Stall (with Miracles and Morning Star)
You can basically plan on some kind of stall deck.  Like Gravity, Light's creatures have terrible cost-to-attack ratios.  So they have to stall.  So plan on lots of Miracles, CC (off element), or quanta control (off element).  I know when I was on Light last war my biggest fear was EQ.  EQs totally stop Light stalls dead in their track.  So this is what I recommend:

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Water-

[edunavas]

We definitely should take momentum+dune scorpions to make less predictable decks. Otherwise we'd be vulnerable to anti-dragon anti-pharaoh CC. It might work eg. against aether and RoL+hope (and fractal decks in general).

That´s what i tried to say.
We have to make less predictable decks. Dune scorpions are slower, but we can use cards to stall.

  I think almost decks must have a discord. I think no one will use a rainbow deck, so discord is a perfect "stall" card. With this we can dispense even shields. I think discord works like 90% of the battles.
And i think we have to create an anti discord deck, cause they will use against us.

On the vault of War 1 i don´t know why you put dissipation shields, they suck if not in a mono entropy.

  I agree using holy light against dark and death, but we have to put 6 in a single deck. it´s 60% of life going down, and we can stall with reverses, procrastinations, eternity, and blessing a scorpion for hit, or using dragons.