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Offline DragoonTopic starter

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Round 5 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16474.msg210897#msg210897
« on: November 27, 2010, 04:09:28 pm »
Round 5 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting

Salvaging
5 Dimensional Shield
1 Fractal

2 Dusk Mantle
4 Stone Pillar

Discarding
17 Time Factories
37 Time Pendulums
6 Precogs
4 Reverse Times
3 Sundials
1 Eternity
2 Procrastination
1 Hourglass
3 Pharaohs
5 Scarabs
7 Devonian Dragons
1 Anubis
3 Dune Scorpions

9 Air Pendulums
2 Flying Weapons
2 Eagle Eyes
1 Sky Dragon

3 Maxwell's Demons
2 Purple Dragons
1 Abomination
5 Discords
4 Antimatters
1 Entropy Pendulum
1 Butterfly Effect

4 Gravity Pillars
4 Gravity Pendulums
6 Black Holes
4 Momentum

3 Aether Pillars
6 Dimensional Shields
2 Fractals

Converting
4 Freeze
2 Purify
4 Stone Pillar
1 Fractal
1 Steal

Into: 12 Time Pendulums

Offline DragoonTopic starter

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Re: Round 5 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16474.msg210898#msg210898
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2010, 04:11:04 pm »
Salvage 6

Brion
Code: [Select]
5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5id 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61q 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 622
Smokefree
Code: [Select]
58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 591 591 591 591 591 591 593 593 593 593 593 595 5aa 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5uo 5uo 5up
Not discarding

2 Cards
Code: [Select]
4vl 4vl 4vl 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vn 50u 55k 55k 55k 55k 55v 55v 55v 55v 5rj 5ro 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rq 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2

Offline DragoonTopic starter

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Re: Round 5 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16474.msg211079#msg211079
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2010, 07:54:58 pm »
90 cards left.  Guess that just means Xinef, Smokefree, and me.  Sorry about that guys.  But I fear we won't be too far behind you all.  :(

Offline Xinef

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Re: Round 5 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16474.msg211114#msg211114
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2010, 08:51:29 pm »
Well... so what do you guys think were our mistakes so far?

I guess during vaultbuilding, we've taken a bit too much counter cards, while many teams designed their decks in a way to be immune to most common counters (ie. darkness immune to holy flashes).
Then, we should have converted cards even in the first two rounds.
Then, we should have spent some more time on gathering data, testing and building decks since some counters used against us were possible to predict.
Then, we should have taken 2 other people instead of Immolation and senabmi... though there were no other candidates for rookie position (I could have looked in chat or somewhere else though). Everyone else did their job and played well, although at least intelligence and testing could have been better.
Then, we should have written the "war tutorial" earlier and avoided penalties.

As for this round, I don't know if not making any suicide decks was a good idea or not. If we built one and fielded 6 a bit better decks, we might have won 3, maybe 4 games, but equally well we could also win only 2. At least if was better fun this way... I hope.



Good things:
Thanks Dragoon, valuka, Smokefree, Brion, edunavas, Belthazar666 for our tinychat meetings, testing, deck ideas and stuff.
Thanks for great PvP battles.
Thanks for your time. I mean thanks for your TIME!

And let's hope we can still win this war. 2/3 decks isn't that bad after all...
The darkness deck is nice. The fire deck also has some uses... and we still have some aether cards...
May the force of the D4HK side be with U ^_^
:time samurai

Smokefree

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Re: Round 5 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16474.msg212082#msg212082
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2010, 10:56:41 pm »
Well... so what do you guys think were our mistakes so far?

I guess during vaultbuilding, we've taken a bit too much counter cards, while many teams designed their decks in a way to be immune to most common counters (ie. darkness immune to holy flashes).
Then, we should have converted cards even in the first two rounds.
Then, we should have spent some more time on gathering data, testing and building decks since some counters used against us were possible to predict.
Then, we should have taken 2 other people instead of Immolation and senabmi... though there were no other candidates for rookie position (I could have looked in chat or somewhere else though). Everyone else did their job and played well, although at least intelligence and testing could have been better.
Then, we should have written the "war tutorial" earlier and avoided penalties.

As for this round, I don't know if not making any suicide decks was a good idea or not. If we built one and fielded 6 a bit better decks, we might have won 3, maybe 4 games, but equally well we could also win only 2. At least if was better fun this way... I hope.



Good things:
Thanks Dragoon, valuka, Smokefree, Brion, edunavas, Belthazar666 for our tinychat meetings, testing, deck ideas and stuff.
Thanks for great PvP battles.
Thanks for your time. I mean thanks for your TIME!

And let's hope we can still win this war. 2/3 decks isn't that bad after all...
The darkness deck is nice. The fire deck also has some uses... and we still have some aether cards...
Just like to say thanks to everyone for making this a great war experience even though we might finish a little short of our expectations.  Never the less I have ton of respect for everyone on our team.  I personally failed a bit a deck strats and testing due to my working schedule increaseing from 32-40 hrs a week to 55-60+ hours a week.   

Thanks again Xinef, it has been a fun ride. 

 

edunavas

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Re: Round 5 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16474.msg212174#msg212174
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2010, 01:28:13 am »
I guess we didn´t do much mistakes. The penalties at the begin of the war just covered our propaganda advantage....
The other teams never (almost) use the same mark of their mark. Darkness don´t need to use dark mark because of penduluns, so, never use a holy light against dark.
Other thing I learn is that people are not afraid that time has eternity. They play creatures anyway.
Never use the same deck against the same guy.

Well, I loved playing with you guys. Loved play this War, there was great PVP games I´ve never played.
Much more experience for next war. And hope more luck.

Of course the war is not over and I´ll be here participating, helping...

Offline Xinef

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Re: Round 5 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16474.msg212574#msg212574
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2010, 03:56:53 pm »
Never use the same deck against the same guy.
If you are referring to hrmmm and the fractal scarab deck, we lost not because the deck was similar, but because he had deflags. If he didn't have deflags, we would be able to chain dim shields and win this one. Of course that would take some Time because scarabs vs. fog shields means roughly 1 damage per scarab, and heals + druidic staff don't help either, but still 18 turns of stall is enough to kill this way. Of course it depends heavily on luck (how early he plays druidic staff, how early fractals come, are there any holes in DS chain etc.) and I guess gravity is quite useless since he will unburrow and adrenaline all his grabs only once the DS chain ends, and if he can OHKO you.

So yeah, his deck would be a great counter against simple fractal scarab, but it was a great counter against DS scarabs only because of deflags. Otherwise it would be mostly a luck based match.

Anyway, to the point. Using the same deck or a similar one is a matter of strategy. Sometimes opponents don't expect you to use the same deck, since 'it would seem too obvious that it would be countered this time' and thus you can surprise them by using the same deck. Or, for example they think you would use that deck against someone else.

Anyway, during the first war :fire used the same quinted spirits deck against us twice in a row (saying 'if it works, no need to fix it') and they did win both :P
Yeah, a poor example to show my point, but anyway the best I can think of right now.




As for the number of mistakes, I think we need to understand the mistakes we've made, so that we can do better next Time. If it was true that we didn't do any mistakes, that would mean that no matter how hard we try, we are doomed to lose, since even with few mistakes we ended on the bottom of the rankings nevertheless.

And it seems :earth made a big mistake in taking so many stall decks, if they all needed >30 cards to work. That seems to be the reason they had to make so many suicide decks this round, and they are 2/7, so even worse than us :P



And I don't understand what do you mean about darkness mark? It's mostly a matter of creatures and quints. A holy flash kills any darkness creature unless it is quinted or has increased HP (gargoyles), so darkness is immune to holy flashes only if it quints it's creatures, uses off-element creatures, or uses buffs to boost HP of their units (or use quanta denial to prevent holy flashes (doesn't work with upped ones), or if they fractal a lot of creatures).
May the force of the D4HK side be with U ^_^
:time samurai

edunavas

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Re: Round 5 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16474.msg212688#msg212688
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2010, 06:42:22 pm »
And I don't understand what do you mean about darkness mark? It's mostly a matter of creatures and quints. A holy flash kills any darkness creature unless it is quinted or has increased HP (gargoyles), so darkness is immune to holy flashes only if it quints it's creatures, uses off-element creatures, or uses buffs to boost HP of their units (or use quanta denial to prevent holy flashes (doesn't work with upped ones), or if they fractal a lot of creatures).
I was considering only about dark mark to do direct damage with holy light.

Belthazar666

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Re: Round 5 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16474.msg212746#msg212746
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2010, 08:15:47 pm »
I thought Holy Light didn't do direct damage to a player, regardless of mark.

edunavas

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Re: Round 5 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16474.msg212897#msg212897
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2010, 10:22:50 pm »
I thought Holy Light didn't do direct damage to a player, regardless of mark.
Well, I was wrong...It didn´t do....I tested now and it only heal the player...i Though it hurt the player as well the creatures...

Offline DragoonTopic starter

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Re: Round 5 - Salvaging, Discarding, Penalties and Converting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16474.msg213582#msg213582
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2010, 02:06:15 pm »
Yes, I think we didn't do as much research and testing as we really needed to.  It was a huge task though what with 9 decks.

I'm also not sure about our vault.  I think it wasn't horribly bad, but I think we could have done some small things to have made it better.  We should have maxed out our Dragons so that we could have some nice counter-weights to our heavy non-Time card usage.  I think taking Holy Flashes weren't the best option since they are basically only useful against 2 elements and only if they play unprotected creatures of their element.  Lightnings and RPs are just as good and work against everybody.

I'm honestly surprised by how many combo decks we've faced despite the fact that we carry RTs and Eternities—adrena-decks, FWs, and Nova-Grab-bows.  I guess you can't really rule out anything people might use against you.

It's been fun though and hopefully we learned a lot that we can be able to use another time.

 

blarg: