And Blood, who said your hand was safe? Last I checked, time was shoving expensive dragons in there and refusing to let you pay for them.Then I'd just discard the dragons. If you're talking about Rewind, then I won't have to discard anything I don't want to discard. But for this scorpion, I would really HATE to choose between my Otyugh and Fallen Druid for which one to discard.
Uhhh, actually, this seems pretty balanced.I wrote this in another thread a while ago when someone else brought up discarding cards into Elements. I was against it.
I mean, you say this card is affecting your hand which is a safe zone, but think about it. Not ONLY do you get to choose which card you discard, but if you can drop all of your cards fast enough, you don't have to discard anything at all. And it's not like these are difficult to kill. I think this is an excellent way to counter stall decks or OHKO decks, while giving a time rush deck a nice boost.
BEFORE you all accuse this of being OP, I ask that we see this card work in the trainer. Depending upon when you have to discard the card, this might actually be very easy to work around. If the discarding takes place at the end of your turn, then there's no way to be caught off guard by it. And even if it happens at the end of their turn, then the only time it can trick you is the turn it's played.
And Blood, who said your hand was safe? Last I checked, time was shoving expensive dragons in there and refusing to let you pay for them.
Well, I hope zanz isn't going to give osiris some of these :o :o :oSince I was the one who originally designed Osiris, I say we give him 12 of those.
This+momentum+epinephrine=Uber discard...I think this card should be one of those exceptions where Adrenaline only causes the ability to activate once every other turn. Otherwise, 4 discards per turn is beyond OP.
yikes!!
BloodShadow, you don't choose which cards to discard. It's a forced, random discard. Also, the behavior with Adrenaline is the same as with the active skill Venom.So I don't even get to choose which card I discard? It's definitely OP now.
Nah, your just scared of it. What if it discards a pillar? :3.BloodShadow, you don't choose which cards to discard. It's a forced, random discard. Also, the behavior with Adrenaline is the same as with the active skill Venom.So I don't even get to choose which card I discard? It's definitely OP now.
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9474.new.html#newEdit: how do i make this a hyperlink?Otyugh Candy with Poison.Nah, your just scared of it. What if it discards a pillar? :3.BloodShadow, you don't choose which cards to discard. It's a forced, random discard. Also, the behavior with Adrenaline is the same as with the active skill Venom.So I don't even get to choose which card I discard? It's definitely OP now.
Also, this is K.0.ed so easily its not funny.
Firebolt? Death. Unupped death-er.
Icebolt? Not death, but very close. Unupped scorp death.
Lighting? Death.
Not to mention that this thing is Otyugh Candy :)
K a few minutes with this in the Trainer.mind posting FG deck
- Needs Atk value to cause discard.
- Quite easily stripped AI5 with Momentum, Dune Scorp and Eternity.
Could easily build a False god killer with Time I think. Elidnis losing his Quints was nasty. I think I'm worried that I'll lose my quints too. O and no more holding Fire Lance for endgame, cause Dune scorp kills that.
God, this is overpowered. No card should be able to affect my HAND. I mean, seriously, my hand is a "safe zone" that shouldn't be touchable.Q-F-T.
I don't see why yall are complaining. This card is pretty balanced. It's a bit slow, so as long as you get a good start, you can just play cards as you draw them. It's about time that time got this ability anyway.QFT. Rush decks couldn't care less about a 0/3 that could potentially destroy their hand (that will be empty in 1-2 turns anyway). Control decks are punished though.
So elements is reduced to "He who plays the most rushed deck wins" ?I don't see why yall are complaining. This card is pretty balanced. It's a bit slow, so as long as you get a good start, you can just play cards as you draw them. It's about time that time got this ability anyway.QFT. Rush decks couldn't care less about a 0/3 that could potentially destroy their hand (that will be empty in 1-2 turns anyway). Control decks are punished though.
This could lead to a quote avalanche, but i agree. I also like Kael's nerf but hmm... this card could still be brutal.God, this is overpowered. No card should be able to affect my HAND. I mean, seriously, my hand is a "safe zone" that shouldn't be touchable.Q-F-T.
Its in the trainer I think; the other two are at any rate.Yes, all 3 cards are currently in the trainer and available for testing.
Hopefully we'll get some new card drawing to counteract this.It's kind of ironic how time is supposed to be based on drawing cards
Fiddled around with this in the trainer. I'll admit it's pretty overpowered, significantly less than cards like fractal, but still deserving of a nerf. And I'm guessing the ability to choose which card you have to discard is too difficult to program.But negative attack means that it will attack. Anything that makes a sign appear on your opponent's health bar qualifies as a "Successful attack", so this will be like giving it Momentum when it comes into play, as Anti-matter ignores almost all shields.
It think it'd be much more balanced if it came into play with -1 attack power. Momentum isn't enough to make it attack, and blessing and the scorpion can be blocked by most shields.
Huh? Seriously? That's a stupid mechanic. Perhaps edit the cards ability so it doesn't work with a negative attack?Maybe "when this card deal damage to your opponent?"
It think it'd be much more balanced if it came into play with -1 attack power. Momentum isn't enough to make it attack, and blessing and the scorpion can be blocked by most shields.i think the reason it comes into play as a 0 attack creature is so that it doesn't heal your opponent on the turn you play it, because then that would be a major turn-away.
That is currently how it works. You deal negative damage.Huh? Seriously? That's a stupid mechanic. Perhaps edit the cards ability so it doesn't work with a negative attack?Maybe "when this card deal damage to your opponent?"
Fiddled around with this in the trainer. I'll admit it's pretty overpowered, significantly less than cards like fractal, but still deserving of a nerf. And I'm guessing the ability to choose which card you have to discard is too difficult to program.So you're saying you want me to make an Entropy/Time deck with Antimatter, Chaos Power, and Dune Scorpions?
It think it'd be much more balanced if it came into play with -1 attack power. Momentum isn't enough to make it attack, and blessing and the scorpion can be blocked by most shields.
When this card causes reduces your opponents heal in the amount of it's current attack, make them discard one card.That is currently how it works. You deal negative damage.Huh? Seriously? That's a stupid mechanic. Perhaps edit the cards ability so it doesn't work with a negative attack?Maybe "when this card deal damage to your opponent?"
No, i think he means that when it is played, its stats are -1/3, not make a whole deck based around those three concepts.Fiddled around with this in the trainer. I'll admit it's pretty overpowered, significantly less than cards like fractal, but still deserving of a nerf. And I'm guessing the ability to choose which card you have to discard is too difficult to program.So you're saying you want me to make an Entropy/Time deck with Antimatter, Chaos Power, and Dune Scorpions?
It think it'd be much more balanced if it came into play with -1 attack power. Momentum isn't enough to make it attack, and blessing and the scorpion can be blocked by most shields.
And I'm guessing the ability to choose which card you have to discard is too difficult to program.I don't see why. It could almost piggyback on the function that makes you discard if you have a full hand.
6qq 6qq 6qq 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 71e 71e 71e 74a 74a 74a 74a 7ao 7ao 7ao 7n0 7n0 7qd 7qd 7qdThe card isn't fantastic against FGs, because they draw two each turn and usually have enough quanta to play whatever they draw. Against players however it would be deadly. I don't think a card that encourages players to blindly play whatever they have in their hand is a good gameplay mechanic. It was already fair being punished for holding out for a combo by not being able to play it earlier; this card makes combos impossible unless you get them in the first few turns.I don't know, but if you could get it in a time-lock deck (2-3 Eternities rewinding everything), it could actually work.
true...true.The card isn't fantastic against FGs, because they draw two each turn and usually have enough quanta to play whatever they draw. Against players however it would be deadly. I don't think a card that encourages players to blindly play whatever they have in their hand is a good gameplay mechanic. It was already fair being punished for holding out for a combo by not being able to play it earlier; this card makes combos impossible unless you get them in the first few turns.I don't know, but if you could get it in a time-lock deck (2-3 Eternities rewinding everything), it could actually work.
It is OP, though. Good thing there isn't a Eclipse card for :time ...
Edit: I feel guilty looking at the index page and seeing my name on 4 or 5 parts...
I STILL don't understand this eternity + dune lock you guys are going on about. If you rewind an opponents creature, it goes on top of their deck, and your dune hits BEFORE it's drawn. Then, after it's drawn, the AI simply plays the damn creature again, meaning you didn't do squat to kill it. It's actually just the normal eternity lock, but with some extra anti-spell defense.Dragon rushes will be killed, just more so with Dune. Any expensive creature the opponent has might not always be played immediately.
I STILL don't understand this eternity + dune lock you guys are going on about. If you rewind an opponents creature, it goes on top of their deck, and your dune hits BEFORE it's drawn. Then, after it's drawn, the AI simply plays the damn creature again, meaning you didn't do squat to kill it. It's actually just the normal eternity lock, but with some extra anti-spell defense.With Eternity, you keep returning their card, thus they never draw anything new. The way to escape this time lock is to wait a turn then rush out your creatures, but with Dune Scorp you are losing that card you are trying to hold.
Kael, every deck controlled by the AI has copies of the new cards in their deck during beta testing in trainer.Damn. Yet to see the AI play the Dune Scorp yet, let alone have the Dune Scorp and a Blessing/Momentum.
I can soo imagine this with fractal :) EPIC denial if it weren't for the 0 atk D:your right
But I think momentum can fix that ;)
I dont think its OP. It requires splashing for it to be powerful at all, so right off the back you need a 2 card + 2 element combo. Also, pillars you will play immidiatly, and you will get to the point where you dont NEED to save creatures in your hand for a combo. A deck based off of this card wont do very good with CC since niether :light nor :gravity have good creature control (I dont consider gravity pull all that powerful especially since the scorpians will only do 1 damage per turn) and so you need so splash an additional element to have CC,I want to see you get thrashed by a Dune Scorpion based FG :D
Oh I could imagine an amazing FG based deck with this and black hole and quicksand with flying pulvys, but a player deck, I dont think so.I dont think its OP. It requires splashing for it to be powerful at all, so right off the back you need a 2 card + 2 element combo. Also, pillars you will play immidiatly, and you will get to the point where you dont NEED to save creatures in your hand for a combo. A deck based off of this card wont do very good with CC since niether :light nor :gravity have good creature control (I dont consider gravity pull all that powerful especially since the scorpians will only do 1 damage per turn) and so you need so splash an additional element to have CC,I want to see you get thrashed by a Dune Scorpion based FG :D
74a 74a 74a 74a 74a 74c 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q4 7q4 7q4 7q4 7q4 7q4 7qc 7qc 7qc 7qd 7qd 7qd 7qd 7qdomg... i fogot about adrenaline. that may be better than any fractal deck i was thinking ofHow so? It only allows a maximum of two doses per turn, and that is assuming you buffed it first.
You know one way it could be massively OP'd?it would be even worse if rainbow OR scorpio had even a couple of the scorpions,
...
...
...
:) If a FG were made out of it xD Can you IMAGINE a FG named, "Scorpi---" nvm >_> dam, too much like Scorpio LOL. Ahh, name it something like "Scorpion" or "Needle" or something that is Trio-Deck'd and uses all 3 or atleast this and the 2 counter poison scorpion :)
2 Cards per turn, 200 HP, epic ness :)
Osiris ;DI dont think its OP. It requires splashing for it to be powerful at all, so right off the back you need a 2 card + 2 element combo. Also, pillars you will play immidiatly, and you will get to the point where you dont NEED to save creatures in your hand for a combo. A deck based off of this card wont do very good with CC since niether :light nor :gravity have good creature control (I dont consider gravity pull all that powerful especially since the scorpians will only do 1 damage per turn) and so you need so splash an additional element to have CC,I want to see you get thrashed by a Dune Scorpion based FG :D
744 744 74a 74a 74a 74a 74a 74a 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q8 7q8 7qc 7qc 7qc 7qd 7qd 7qd 7qd 7qd 7qdThe ?'?? are Dune scorpions
As the original designer of Osiris, I say we give him 12 Dune Scorpions. Just to show how OP this card is.Actually 12 would not be that OP and would be a waste, slowing down the deck. These guys would still need unstoppable to be useful and I bet the AI prioritises Pharaoh and scarab over over the scorpion. Also 12 would eat up spaces that scarabs could be generated to. 1-2 out with momentum is plenty to adversely effect a deck. Maybe 4 total in the deck would be a good number.
As the original designer of Osiris, I say we give him 12 Dune Scorpions. Just to show how OP this card is.That's rather like saying Dark Matter shows how OP black hole is.
| Way of Destruction | Pros | Cons |
| With Dune Scorpion | -Every turn without upkeep -Can destroy spells | -2 Element combo -Chooses randomly (in effect) -Won't always do anything |
| After card has been played | -Opponent uses quanta -Single element combo -Sometimes every turn (usually with upkeep) | -Can't destroy spells -Can't always destroy every turn, and when it does it needs an upkeep |
lol, it doesn't attack, but it somehow deals an succesful one?Thats what stops this card from being OP. Its really brilliant how Zanz had a card idea he wanted, knew that the communit would think its OP, knows the limits of the game engine, and finds the perfect solution. a card that has a powerful effect, but is useless without another element, still weak nonetheless.
The card isn't OP, it's just very annoying.I think you summed this card up in a sentence.
Annoying to the point where I wouldn't want it in-game. It counters decks that use card-strategies reliant on combos of cards or playing cards in certain situations (permanent or creature control spells, miracle, fractal, bonewall combos (of which there are ridiculous amounts), flying weapons decks, decks that rely on quintessences, just to name a teeny tiny few). It's one card that counters too many others. Wings is at least weak to perm control, being stolen especially, airborne creatures, momentum, etc. etc.I agree with jmdt:
This card, if played early, is only vulnerable to early CC, and with adrenaline or with 1+ others, is just horrid, lol.
I have the feeling it would cripple too many decks, and make rushing even more popular (My rush decks steadily win the most in pvp), and interesting card synergies and strategies even less so, which makes me sad.
With a card like this it could develop a triangle were rush decks beat hand disruption decks, hand disruption decks beat control stalls, and control stalls beat rush decks.We are seeing that control decks are becoming more and more prevalent, and as result a card like this comes out. It won't ruin all control decks, not at all, but it does counter them, OTK, and rainbows.
I appear to be the only one welcoming this new card. Guys, why should your hand be safe?Because the denial effect voids the presence of cards. In other games this can be offset with Search or mulitfunction effects but they don't exist in this game.
Because the denial effect voids the presence of cards. In other games this can be offset with Search or multifunction effects but they don't exist in this game.Personally, I hate rushes, but otherwise I get your point. :(
Denial also provokes negative feelings in the game because it stops you playing the game rather than trying and losing.
The worst of the effect is that once a card is discarded, its gone and you never even got to use it. This effect changes the environment into a rush fest.
You have a point there, if there were ways to recycle or reclaim cards, the game would be a better environment for Dune Scorpion. But, then, I remember you also don't like graveyards.. :-XI like graveyards when I can play in them.
Still, I like Dune Scorpion.
If Dune Scorpion sent it to the bottom of the deck, then maybe it would be more friendlier to your opponent (lol)? But, then, does that mean Dune Scorpion's attack should remain 0?You have a point there, if there were ways to recycle or reclaim cards, the game would be a better environment for Dune Scorpion. But, then, I remember you also don't like graveyards.. :-XI like graveyards when I can play in them.
Still, I like Dune Scorpion.
Still don't think Elements needs a Graveyard.
If the card returned to your deck rather than being lost, I would have no issue with Dune Scorpion.
I appear to be the only one welcoming this new card. Guys, why should your hand be safe?Hey, I support the card too. the rush of the (online) hunt... ah yes... especially when your prey runs you over
If the card returned to your deck rather than being lost, I would have no issue with Dune Scorpion.
I wouldn't mind this either, but I'd also prefer it to be sent to the bottom of the deck. Note that this would make your opponent's deck immortal as long as Dune Scorpion attacks, unless they play that last card.If the card returned to your deck rather than being lost, I would have no issue with Dune Scorpion.
QFT (again).
I'd be ok with that too. As long as I got to play the card sometime without it being lost forever.I wouldn't mind this either, but I'd also prefer it to be sent to the bottom of the deck. Note that this would make your opponent's deck immortal as long as Dune Scorpion attacks, unless they play that last card.If the card returned to your deck rather than being lost, I would have no issue with Dune Scorpion.
QFT (again).
its way too strong, in combo with black holes and momentums, you could shut down your opponent completely. yes, it depends on luck to get this out fast enough, but if you do, there is barely anything to do for your opponent. card-advantage deluxe. (and shutdown for any rainbow with reverse times too).If you can shut your opponent down with Quanta Denial + Discard then you can shut them down with Quanta Denial.
i really really hate that card, it is atm.
Not necessarily. If you already got out some heavy hitters, denial is not enough.you're right. So the card is fine as is.
I've won against fractal pests a few times when i was completely out of quanta.
For example you have 5 dune, 5 momentum, 5 blackhole and 2 chargers for a 30 card deckBut if you adrenaline the card it would discard your whole hand with a single attack. Pretty OP
if your opponent put down a giant frog in turn 1-2, then you lock him down in the rest of the game, you still lost the game if you don't draw the attack early
if you put in more attackers, you won't have enough cards to lock down your opponents as 6 Dune Scorpion require another 6 card slots to buff
Why not put a limit on how many cards can discarded by turn?I'm pretty sure this ability is like all the others that activate after an attack, in that it only works twice per creature per turn (first and last attack).
.-.
Cant wait to put this with deathstalker in my death/time deck, definately not OP :PUmmm.... whats the third element going to be? You need somethign that can power up your creatures since they have 0 atk
i have the mark of gravity, +3 unstoppables to current deck :DCant wait to put this with deathstalker in my death/time deck, definately not OP :PUmmm.... whats the third element going to be? You need somethign that can power up your creatures since they have 0 atk
Can't wait to use this in my specific deck against Miracle.I was just thinking, this card could have some value in the end game against false gods that spam miracles... or twin universe for that matter...
Maybe for the first fight of the day if you know you'll face someone like Miracle. Other than that, I dont see it worthy of a card slot against random FG.Can't wait to use this in my specific deck against Miracle.I was just thinking, this card could have some value in the end game against false gods that spam miracles... or twin universe for that matter...
Yeah this card isn't that useful most of the time versus the fg. Fractal or eternity are the best ways to stop miracle. You either outdamage it or let them use them all up. As far as TU spam, a combination of aflatoxin and to a lesser degree ulitharid are good to stop this.Maybe for the first fight of the day if you know you'll face someone like Miracle. Other than that, I dont see it worthy of a card slot against random FG.Can't wait to use this in my specific deck against Miracle.I was just thinking, this card could have some value in the end game against false gods that spam miracles... or twin universe for that matter...
A new version of dune scorpion is available in the trainer.Whoa, I probably like this more.
The new neurotoxin effect adds 1 poison damage, like the other scorpions, but every time the opponent plays a card while poisoned with neurotoxin one extra poison is added to the counter.
Purify removes neurotoxin.
Please take some time to try the new version and compare against the old one.
A new version of dune scorpion is available in the trainer.Oh, you want to provide a strong combo with Dune Scorpion and Nightmare against AI. But it'll be a trio.
The new neurotoxin effect adds 1 poison damage, like the other scorpions, but every time the opponent plays a card while poisoned with neurotoxin one extra poison is added to the counter.
Purify removes neurotoxin.
Please take some time to try the new version and compare against the old one.
A new version of dune scorpion is available in the trainer.Definitely liking this A LOT more. Thanks Zanz.
The new neurotoxin effect adds 1 poison damage, like the other scorpions, but every time the opponent plays a card while poisoned with neurotoxin one extra poison is added to the counter.
Purify removes neurotoxin.
Please take some time to try the new version and compare against the old one.
I'm testing it right now in trainer, and this change may give me a chance to try this against FG's in a new deck...Please also notice it is another anti fractal card :)
6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 744 74a 74a 74a 74a 7n2 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q3 7q3 7q4 7q4 7q4 7q4 7q4 7q4 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q8 7q8 7qc 7qc 7qd 7qd 7qd 7qdA new version of dune scorpion is available in the trainer.thats awesome. Now there are more cards to counter that OPish fractal
The new neurotoxin effect adds 1 poison damage, like the other scorpions, but every time the opponent plays a card while poisoned with neurotoxin one extra poison is added to the counter.
Purify removes neurotoxin.
Please take some time to try the new version and compare against the old one.
Just found that the ability has changed and it no longer hits cards in hand but rather poisons the opponent.Pufferfish really deserves the buffs, especially with so much competition. Plus, now Water has a double buff - Purify is going to see tons more use.
I don't mind this new version, its not overly strong and doesn't come pre-powered up.
Still disliking the pufferfish with it 3 atk tho.
Awesome new change. This and Nightmare are the Fractal nerfs everyone wants.1) These are not Fractal nerfs, just ways to counter Fractal if you're packing them in the deck. I dont think they will be widely used, so Fractal decks will still be viable.
Fractal decks (Decay and Eternal Phoenix) have actually been very hard for this deck.Yeah, the card isnt really the hard counter to Fractal, you actually have to have good defence to stop its damage and give accumulated poison enough time to kill the opponent. I didnt get time to test it myself, but playing the card in some type of control/stall rainbow would be nice to test. Turtle shield often isnt enough.
This is going to be brutal against Rainbow. He can lay down a bunch of hourglasses and play like 10 cards per turn... if he doesn't mind racking up 10 more poison counters on himself every turn :))These new cards love to punish the AI. :)) AI probably needs a rework in v.1.25.
Whoa, I probably like this more.Agreed, this card is now not overpowered at all, and might actually be somehwat underpowered.
What is weird about it, is that it just requires the one application. You get your Dunie out with buff, it hits, and then your opponent immediately kills it. Well, no problem it's already done the deed, now it's up to your Eternity, Rewinds, and possibly Nightmares to build up the damage. It fits in perfectly with Time.And this is something I dont think its fair. Add poison counters for people playing cards? At least do it non-pillar / tower cards.
Is there a deck in the trainer that uses it, so we can see what it's like getting hit with this thing?
6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 74a 74a 74a 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q3 7q3 7q3 7q4 7q4 7q4 7q4 7q4 7q4 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q8 7q8 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7qd 7qd 7qdResults of 50 FG games:What is weird about it, is that it just requires the one application. You get your Dunie out with buff, it hits, and then your opponent immediately kills it. Well, no problem it's already done the deed, now it's up to your Eternity, Rewinds, and possibly Nightmares to build up the damage. It fits in perfectly with Time.I have tried it. Don't use Nightmare since it will kill yourself.
Is there a deck in the trainer that uses it, so we can see what it's like getting hit with this thing?
7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jt 7jt 7jt 7jt 7jv 7jv 7jv 7jv 7jv 7jv 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7qd 7qd 7qd 7qd 7qd 7qd 7th 7th 7th 7th 7th 7thMade this deck for the lolz.Fixed. :) I tried the deck. Awful.
It uses nightmare and scorpions.Code: [Select]7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jt 7jt 7jt 7jt 7jv 7jv 7jv 7jv 7jv 7jv 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7qd 7qd 7qd 7qd 7qd 7qd 7th 7th 7th 7th 7th 7th
Plus, it uses solar bucklereffectivelyfailtastically, which is also HILARIOUS.
I just don't like how 6 scorpions don't cause six poison for each card played.
This seems like a pretty powerful card when it comes to PvE; a deck that was thrown together less than a day after the card was released has 40% win rate? Imagine how well a fine-tuned deck could do.It's only 50 games, but I was surprised at that success. When all the scorpions go live, more of the FGs might need Purify in their decks.
since your opponent gets poisoned regardless of whether the Scorpion attacks.Now that has to be a bug. Otherwise, Momentum will see much less use.
S/he is poisoned whenever s/he plays a card. That's neurotoxin for you.since your opponent gets poisoned regardless of whether the Scorpion attacks.Now that has to be a bug. Otherwise, Momentum will see much less use.
6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 744 744 74a 7n2 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q3 7q3 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q7 7q7 7q8 7q8 7qc 7qd 80h 80h 80hI only used a single Scorpion, but with momentum+immortality and it was enough to form at least half of my offensive. Against dissipation shields, phase shields etc. it was my only offensive power, while against shieldless FGs it usually dealt around half of the damage.
And the deck itself:I'll suggest down the deck size to 31 cards,Code: [Select]6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 744 744 74a 7n2 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q3 7q3 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q7 7q7 7q8 7q8 7qc 7qd 80h 80h 80h
Well, of course I based it on my experience with a Pharaoh deck, so the defensive part and the pharaoh-offensive part are similar, and only the gravity and Dune Scorpion part and some tweaks distinguish it from the standard Pharaoh approach I've used.And the deck itself:I'll suggest down the deck size to 31 cards,Code: [Select]6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 744 744 74a 7n2 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q3 7q3 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q7 7q7 7q8 7q8 7qc 7qd 80h 80h 80h
remove all hourglass (-4),
-3 Time Tower,
-1 Gravity Tower,
-1 Anubis,
-1 Turtle Shield,
-1 SoG,
+1 Eternity,
+1 Animate Weapon
In fact Dune+Unstoppable is not a must, since Pharaoh can do the job and also prevent deck out. What Dune does is faster the damage and ignore shields.
Dunno if it's been suggested before, but what if there were a separate card called the "dune scorpling" that's 2 :time to play 0HP/1, and 1 :time to grow into the dune scorpion proper and doesn't cause poisoning if ingested? Then make the dune scorpion rare.I recommended something like that with the old version. Looks like zanz wants to keep this card at 0 attack. I really don't like 0 attack cards that can't use there effect out of the box. I will rarely use this card if ever. I way stick 1-2 in a pharaoh deck IF I ever make one, but that's about it.
The new version is very cool. I was pretty worried about the old version because it would demolish all my control decks, all of which have a few essential cards: a couple of creatures, shields, and/or weapons which, when lost, would really destroy me.*repeated headdesk*
However, I think it makes purify so much more important. I almost think upgraded purify needs to be colorless now to balance things out a bit and maybe do like +2 healing instead of +1 so that it's not completely useless against non-poison decks.
Anyone thinking to put Nightmare with this, regardless of that whole tri element thing that'd be pretty nice. Just get a cheap, weak card and a shield.http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11288.0.html
I moved the topic and updated first post to show the current description (and use wiki pictures). Is that alright?It looks right I believe. :)
I think this card is overpowered and should be dealt with. It creates an ongoing condition that is exacerbated by what victim does and can only be countered by one card in one element.Or you can just not play unnecessary cards.
You shouldn't have unnecessary cards in your deck.As in cards, you Don't have to use to win.
Is this a bug or is this card really supposed to keep damaging you every time you play a card EVEN AFTER you destroy it??The card is perfectly balanced, even if you take Momentum-ability into consideration. Look for example Lava Golem + Quintessence. That's exactly as bad 2 card combo, and there's really just 1 card that can stop it (Thorn Shield).
I got hit with it one time. Killed it and still received damage with every card I played. This seems a little TOO harsh since it effectively (time/momentum) has absolutely no way to protect yourself from it.
I mean once you get hit (especially if it is early) your kind of screwed.
... And definitely, Dune Scorpion decks are not the most reliable, which is their main weakness.:o No way,
The card is perfectly balanced, even if you take Momentum-ability into consideration. Look for example Lava Golem + Quintessence. That's exactly as bad 2 card combo, and there's really just 1 card that can stop it (Thorn Shield).I suppose your right about the golem/quint combo ... if you ignore phase shields, wings, fog, bone wall, dissipation shield, ice shield, dusk mantle, and procrastination.
Yes, I did ignore those cards, because they just stall Golem doing it's damage, they don't stop it.The card is perfectly balanced, even if you take Momentum-ability into consideration. Look for example Lava Golem + Quintessence. That's exactly as bad 2 card combo, and there's really just 1 card that can stop it (Thorn Shield).I suppose your right about the golem/quint combo ... if you ignore phase shields, wings, fog, bone wall, dissipation shield, ice shield, dusk mantle, and procrastination.
So as you can see the lava golem combo is not as powerful as the momentum/dune scorp because it has a lot of different cards to counter it.
Yes, I did ignore those cards, because they just stall Golem doing it's damage, they don't stop it.If you read my original post my whole point is that the effect can not be stopped no matter what card you play once you get pricked. As you point out I can play cards to delay the damage but even the very act of playing those cards is building up the counter more. Once effected by the dune scorpion only purify can reverse it.
I think this card is overpowered and should be dealt with. It creates an ongoing condition that is exacerbated by what victim does and can only be countered by one card in one element.Use the one element with the one card.
When speaking of win rates, I usually call it "efficiency", while ability to play a certain combo before winning or losing "reliability". Eg. a deck with 6 Dune Scorpions and 6 Momentums might be more reliable but less efficient than a deck with 3 Dune Scorpions and 3 Momentums.... And definitely, Dune Scorpion decks are not the most reliable, which is their main weakness.:o No way,
ESco the Half-Blood Killer (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11715.0.html) disagrees!
I have >90% win rate on Half-Blood and >80% on PVP2 (not good on FG). So DS-deck can be reliable, but the thing that it gets sooo slow to play with. And like Xinef said, this one too can be out-rushed and OUT-PLAYED by skilled PVP player. But lets be honest here, how often you think rush decks should win against control decks, if the control deck is able to stall over 15 rounds?
Xinef I guess after reading your argument you make some good points but IMHO opinion I still feel that the nuerotoxin ability should require an upkeep cost or something because although you made a lot of good points when it came to the chrysoar point you made you did forget one thing. Chrysoar does require quantum to continue poisoning you while the nuerotoxin just requires one successful prick. I could potentially be happier if this card at least was a little more expensive to put out.I did not forget it, I mentioned it when I assumed a Chrysoara uses it's ability on average 3 times, so that I could compare 1 :water + 3 :death cost to the 3 :time + 1 :gravity cost, so that the conclusion would be the main difference is you pay the same quanta, but 2 cards instead of one, for the same effect + neurotoxin, so neurotoxin is worth "1 card".
As for neurotoxin having an upkeep cost... I guess that would only make sense if the state of being neurotoxined had an upkeep cost for the opponent, and to be honest :death seems the most fitting, but that would extremely nerf the card, so I'm waiting for other suggestions :PAgreed that :death would be too much of a nerf but you could also do an upkeep cost of :time instead.
Agreed that :death would be too much of a nerf but you could also do an upkeep cost of :time instead.Increasing what cost? Playing Dune Scorpion? To me that would seem like pretty much irrelevant nerf (in a stall deck it doesn't matter if you're forced to play the winning card-combo 1 or 2 turns later), but maybe you meant something else. And having some "upkeep costs" sounds little too much MTG for me... 8)
What about just increasing its cost by 1?
I actually think the best nerf for this would be that a single prick DOES NOT keep neurotoxin activated. If you kill the dune scorp then you shouldn't continue to receive poison damage IMO.