Team PvP #3 - round 1

[guy_fawkes]

Spike your error was trivial, i don't blame you at all
a warning would have sufficed, but it appears that a team deserves to lose because of that...
this totally takes out the spirit of the competition and the effort our team made to prepare and fight our battles...

[Dragoon1140]

I don't want to search any excuse, but I was not the only who broke that rule, so I suggest the organizer to evaluate how that rule is useful...

Enjoy your reason why the rule was made (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11994.msg173835#msg173835).

[SpikeSpiegel]

I don't want to search any excuse, but I was not the only who broke that rule, so I suggest the organizer to evaluate how that rule is useful...

Enjoy your reason why the rule was made (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11994.msg173835#msg173835).

Ok, follow me:

Reductio ad absurdum

 1)  I use an illegal deck, more than 2/3 of my deck may consist of one element, then I post my deck in the forum, but it's modified to seem legal and I don't edit my post:  IT'S ALL OK.


 2)  I use a legal deck, i post the deck in the forum without modifies; I made a mistake with grammar, or I just want to add something (ie. good luck to my team) and I edit my post:  DISQUALIFIED.


There's something I still cannot understand...

 

[Dm]

I also find it a rather stupid rule. I mean, honestly, even if they CHANGE their deck, they already won or lost. And I think we're all honest enough not to do it.

(Why, timer? WHY?)

But see, that's the issue.  What happens when 2 well respected members begin to argue because of a deck mix up?  The PvPO's going to have to choose between the two, and this is prime grounds for drama to start.  Last TPvP had the thread go on for 3 pages of non-stop arguing between two players because there was a deck complication.  I personally DO NOT want to see an atrocity like that occur again.

So I honestly don't mind this rule.  It's more of an incentive to make your posts short and sweet and pay closer attention to what you use to win.  Honestly, if you NEED to add commentary to your battle results then you can always do it in a separate post if you're that concerned about making typos; the PvPO only needs the match results anyways.

That "atrocity" would be simply fixed if there was no worries. Maybe I had a deck with a card less. Or maybe I just edited my post to fix a typo. What if the error is not mine to blame for the editing, but the oponent's to blame because of the typo fixing?

What if, instead of a cheat, it was like spike - Goodluck? Is a second post really worth it? Either we edit the post or get a loss, or we post again, and not only do a double post, but is also put in as "spam".

Now you think, is the "goodluck" really needed? No. The rule isn't, either.

Like spike said above, can't people just cheat on the official post? Shouldn't we, what, screenshot everything and play until deckout? That's going to the extreme, I know, but.. Honestly?

Look, we have had problems in the past, we had to create this rule. Not happy? Then find a new event, end of convo and whoever criticizes this rule again gets kicked, is that clear?

Hmmm...

[DevilLoss]

I mean really I think all this rule has is added more frustration to the event because now my team has to redo a match and therefore make everyone else wait. While also its gotten two people to overreact to it and quit and leave spike alone with no teammates, I understand why the rule is there but it’s kind of makes me feel like I am a 4 year old again. And I have gotten in trouble because I stuck my hand in the cookie jar and forgot to close the lid.

[Higurashi]

Added? Not at all. There was a lot more without it.

Now we have it black on white and easy to follow. As a participant, it is your responsibility to be aware of that when you join.

[willng3]

I also find it a rather stupid rule. I mean, honestly, even if they CHANGE their deck, they already won or lost. And I think we're all honest enough not to do it.

(Why, timer? WHY?)

But see, that's the issue.  What happens when 2 well respected members begin to argue because of a deck mix up?  The PvPO's going to have to choose between the two, and this is prime grounds for drama to start.  Last TPvP had the thread go on for 3 pages of non-stop arguing between two players because there was a deck complication.  I personally DO NOT want to see an atrocity like that occur again.

So I honestly don't mind this rule.  It's more of an incentive to make your posts short and sweet and pay closer attention to what you use to win.  Honestly, if you NEED to add commentary to your battle results then you can always do it in a separate post if you're that concerned about making typos; the PvPO only needs the match results anyways.

That "atrocity" would be simply fixed if there was no worries. Maybe I had a deck with a card less. Or maybe I just edited my post to fix a typo. What if the error is not mine to blame for the editing, but the oponent's to blame because of the typo fixing?

What if, instead of a cheat, it was like spike - Goodluck? Is a second post really worth it? Either we edit the post or get a loss, or we post again, and not only do a double post, but is also put in as "spam".

Now you think, is the "goodluck" really needed? No. The rule isn't, either.

Honestly, if you NEED to add commentary to your battle results then you can always do it in a separate post if you're that concerned about making typos; the PvPO only needs the match results anyways.

Like spike said above, can't people just cheat on the official post? Shouldn't we, what, screenshot everything and play until deckout? That's going to the extreme, I know, but.. Honestly?

You're a TO, you should know this better than anyone.  What happens if someone during a weekly Tourney is caught using a card that is banned in the rules in their deck?  Do they get a rematch? No.  Do they get to participate in another match up?  No.  Why is this?  Because regardless of what you had intended to do, the bottom line is that a rule is broken.  This honestly would not even be a problem if not for the fact that people had either not read the rules or simply didn't believe ji412jo would enforce it as strictly as had been stated.  However now there's a problem just because the rule was actually broken?  Why didn't you complain about it BEFORE the rule was broken multiple times if it was such a "stupid" rule?  What exactly is wrong with using past events to dictate how the next one functions?  What purpose is there of history if we do not learn from our mistakes and better the future?

Is it wrong for PvPOs to desire to circumvent drama before it starts?  Perhaps next time they should add this to the rules as well:

"Questioning moderation policies/actions in the forums: if you have a disagreement with a moderator (If your thread gets deleted, if you get a warning, etc.), DO NOT post your complaint publicly on the forums. If you have a problem with a moderator's actions, PM or email the moderator privately. If the moderator's response is unsatisfactory, email the administrator (Scaredgirl)."

[Dm]

Cut it down to make the quoting better.

You're a TO, you should know this better than anyone.  What happens if someone during a weekly Tourney is caught using a card that is banned in the rules in their deck?  Do they get a rematch? No.  Do they get to participate in another match up?  No.  Why is this?  Because regardless of what you had intended to do, the bottom line is that a rule is broken.  This honestly would not even be a problem if not for the fact that people had either not read the rules or simply didn't believe ji412jo would enforce it as strictly as had been stated.  However now there's a problem just because the rule was actually broken?  Why didn't you complain about it BEFORE the rule was broken multiple times if it was such a "stupid" rule?  What exactly is wrong with using past events to dictate how the next one functions?  What purpose is there of history if we do not learn from our mistakes and better the future?

Yes. However, as a TO, don't we go by the "Pics or it didn't happen"? Isn't a SCREENSHOT needed to prove that your opponent is cheating? Upped card? Off-element?

Comparing a tournament to this is.. honestly, quite.. different? In tournaments, let's say we BAN those cards. In here, the only rule is that we must be 2/3 of the chosen element - No more.

On tournaments like that, and we HAD those (Trial Phase 2 Tournament) we just had to TRUST that people would really go with the porcentage. Saying that they wouldn't is just like saying that they're cheating, though we have no proof what-so-ever. Like the Duo tournament we ALSO had a while ago. People would just throw 1 card of the other element and call it a duo. Which is right. But couldn't I accuse him of cheating for 20+ turns in and no off-element card yet?

That's a much better comparison. You were a little bit confusing, but I understood the essence (Puntended.) of the comment.

Fact is, we're working on how that rule has been added. Reading that rule or not reading, it's a rule nonetheless. Now, if that rule is good or not, it's a totally different thing.

And again - there isn't a problem because the rule has been broken. Actually, this isn't half as serious as -

Enjoy your reason why the rule was made (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11994.msg173835#msg173835).

This. Honestly, it's FAR from serious like that. Example : SpikeSpiegel's, like I said! Just a "good luck". However, because of that good luck, he got a auto-loss. Is that, over-all, fair?

I don't LIKE the rule. Actually, yes, the rule fixes more drama then it creates. Fact is the rule can get to be quite un-fair on the end. Typo Fixing, Good Luck.. are those things that need punishment? A auto-loss for a simple good luck?

Obviously, we can't know if it was only that. And we go back to the start - Truth. Or being honest, if you so desire.

Then again, we're going on too much. Decisions have been made. Sure, I think I also left a space open for some discussion. Feel free to PM me about that, if you wish.

"Questioning moderation policies/actions in the forums: if you have a disagreement with a moderator (If your thread gets deleted, if you get a warning, etc.), DO NOT post your complaint publicly on the forums. If you have a problem with a moderator's actions, PM or email the moderator privately. If the moderator's response is unsatisfactory, email the administrator (Scaredgirl)."

Edit : About the using the past events to know how we dictate the nexts (that I totally forgot.) we go by the simple fact that the problems are different. Sure, using a past event to enhance the event is great. Doesn't means it applies to all occasions in all times.

[Essence]

Enjoy your reason why the rule was made (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11994.msg173835#msg173835).

This.

Then again, we're going on too much. Decisions have been made.

And this. I realize that I'm pulling an SG here.  That said,

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION OF THE MATTER BY ANYONE (MYSELF INCLUDED) WILL RESULT IN AN IMMEDIATE BAN FROM ALL PVP EVENTS UNTIL THE END OF THE NEXT WAR..


(Was that visible enough for y'all?)

If you're going to quit, that's cool, just let us know.  If you have any further complaints, questions, or problems with how this little debacle was handled, blame me, PM me, and keep it out of the thread or risk the consequences.


To everyone who wisely kept quiet and just wants to get on with the game, thank you and AMEN.

[Dm]

Holy Batman!

So, as to my team mate and DSSCRA - Rematch? I'd really like to know. (Team mate. ftw.)

[ddevans96]

I would like some clarification on the rematch required between Timer and DSSCRA. Are they required to use the exact decks they posted in the exact order they used them in?

[TimerClock14]

I would like some clarification on the rematch required between Timer and DSSCRA. Are they required to use the exact decks they posted in the exact order they used them in?

Be this my downfall or my.....something else, I'll state this now:
No matter what happens decision-wise with me and DSSCRA's match, I intend to use the decks I posted exactly. This is more of a personal thing, kind of proving "I didn't edit my decks". Take it how you wish, but there it is.