The Colosseum - Feedback

[The Oracle]

Please post feedback about this event.

[Scaredgirl]

Feedback topic was missing so I had to create one because if I posted this on the betting topic, it would have only confused people.

I love the betting system where you enter your picks directly into the brackets, but I am a bit concerned that the betting is too much work for both the participants and the organizers. I think that with some changes, it would be a win-win situation for eveyone. So here it is:

>> LINK TO ALTERNATIVE VERSION OF BETTING << (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgB8fZX7y8kydGw4RlhIS3lMdWpLTWJnQldoX3RGWkE#gid=0) THIS IS ONLY AN EXAMPLE AND NOT A REAL BET

Basically all you need to do is click that "Bet2" sheet, insert your name, and pick the winners from the drop-down menu. That's it.



Here are some facts about the both systems.

CURRENT SPREADSHEET (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCh8-BfWOzYdFcwRUxIaW5NRVZVbFYzNVEtb01FbGc#gid=9)	ALTERNATIVE SPREADSHEET (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgB8fZX7y8kydGw4RlhIS3lMdWpLTWJnQldoX3RGWkE#gid=0)
Requires a Google account (!!!)	No login required
Needs a new Google Docs spreadsheet for each player. 100 people, 100 spreadsheets.	Only one spreadsheet will be used regardless of the number of people betting
Has 7 sheets per person	Only 1 sheet per person so it's easier to see the big picture of things
Requires previous knowledge of how to set up Google Docs permissions, or the energy to learn how to do it	No previous Google Docs experience required
Participans need to manually insert usernames which could lead to losing the betting because of a typo	Usernames are taken from a drop-down list which is both faster and error-proof
Simple and easy-to understand layout	Almost identical layout but with some small visual improvement to make things more epic
Each participant has to send a PM to an organizer. 100 participants, 100 PM's.	No PM's needed.
Organizers have to manually embed each spreadsheet on the forums. Tons of work.	All bets are visible in the same spreadsheet so no need to embed anything, just give the link. Scoring standings can be added to that same spreadsheet.

I think that after reading the table above and comparing the two systems, I am confident that everyone will see the big advantages that the alternative system would bring. I really recommend that the organizers seriously consider implementing either this, or similar, system right now. Even with the need to move bets from the current system to a new one, the overall workload would still be 10 times less, guaranteed.

Best part is of course that with an easier betting system that requires no login or Google Docs experience, there will be more bets, and the betting won't be just for hardcore forum users. Latter is important because unless we get the masses involved, we cannot give in-game prizes in the betting of the next Colosseum event.

[majofa]

I always wondered why they didn't have the drop down tabs. One question: Could anyone come on and change someone else's bets? (because that would be a disaster)

[Scaredgirl]

I always wondered why they didn't have the drop down tabs. One question: Could anyone come on and change someone else's bets? (because that would be a disaster)

Not after the sheet has been locked. But between the time you have filled in the sheet and an organizer has locked it, yes anyone can edit it. This is the same security concern kev had when I talked to him. It's the reason why participants are asked to confirm their bets after they have been locked.

There is no way around that unfortunately, not unless we require users to login or dramatically increase the workload of organizers. However I don't think that will be a major problem when we look at all the pros and cons. I cannot imagine anyone so "lifeless" that he or she would lurk in that topic and ninja edit all the bets as they come in. Isolated incidents are easy to fix later by the organizers. And if something bigger happens, we can always revert to an earlier version of the spreadsheet.

One good way to avoid this would be to after making your bet, talking to one of the organizers in chat and asking them to lock the sheet.

[The_Mormegil]

I always wondered why they didn't have the drop down tabs. One question: Could anyone come on and change someone else's bets? (because that would be a disaster)

Not after the sheet has been locked. But between the time you have filled in the sheet and an organizer has locked it, yes anyone can edit it. This is the same security concern kev had when I talked to him. It's the reason why participants are asked to confirm their bets after they have been locked.

There is no way around that unfortunately, not unless we require users to login or dramatically increase the workload of organizers. However I don't think that will be a major problem when we look at all the pros and cons. I cannot imagine anyone so "lifeless" that he or she would lurk in that topic and ninja edit all the bets as they come in. Isolated incidents are easy to fix later by the organizers. And if something bigger happens, we can always revert to an earlier version of the spreadsheet.

One good way to avoid this would be to after making your bet, talking to one of the organizers in chat and asking them to lock the sheet.

Also, you may want to take a screenshot of your bets, so that when you check the bets after they have been locked you can prove they have been altered.

[Scaredgirl]

Also, you may want to take a screenshot of your bets, so that when you check the bets after they have been locked you can prove that they have been altered.

Hm.. I don't think that helps much because the problem is not really participants not being able to prove their results have been altered, problem is results being altered.

1. I make my bet
2. You lock it
3. I check my bet

Them one of the following happens

4a. My bet is ok and the sheet cannot be altered by anyone. No problems.
4b. Someone changed my bet. I inform the organizer who makes the changes to the sheet. It stays locked the whole time and no outsider can edit it. No problems.


So you see, I don't really have to prove anything. Revision history will show if something has been changed or not, although I really doubt that someone would like that his or her bets has been changed, seeing that the battles have not even started.

I improved the security a bit. I added a script that sends email to a specific email address (both organizers) every time someone makes an edit to that spreadsheet. The email says "New Colosseum betting has been posted" and has a link to the file. What sucks about the script is that it sends one email per edit meaning that if you write your name and insert 32 winners, you will get 33 emails.

Hopefully someone more interested in Google code will help out and modify the script so that it for example has a limit of one email per each 5 minutes. Here's the simple code I used.

Code: [Select]

function myFunction() {
  // The code below will email the topleft cell in the active range to another user
  MailApp.sendEmail("worldofelementsevent@gmail.com", "New Colosseum betting has been posted.", "https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgB8fZX7y8kydGw4RlhIS3lMdWpLTWJnQldoX3RGWkE#gid=0"); 
}It's not a perfect solution but it should help a bit. That is if we get rid of that spammy part of the code.

[The_Mormegil]

Code: [Select]

function myFunction() {
  // The code below will email the topleft cell in the active range to another user
  MailApp.sendEmail("worldofelementsevent@gmail.com", "New Colosseum betting has been posted.", "https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgB8fZX7y8kydGw4RlhIS3lMdWpLTWJnQldoX3RGWkE#gid=0"); 
}It's not a perfect solution but it should help a bit. That is if we get rid of that spammy part of the code.

If you know how to make a timer, then you just need to adjust the function with a conditional: something like this with the proper code language (which I do not know).

Edit -> call function:
{If timer == 0 then MailApp.sendEmail etcetera
End If
Set timer = 5 minutes}


This will set the timer at 5 minutes for every edit, meaning you need to come back after 5 full minutes from the last edit before it sends another email. Big problem: I don't know how to set a timer (nor the rest of the coding language, but that's easier as they are almost all the same).

[kev]

I agree with virtually everything in SG's long post.  Some things, such as having more than one spreadsheet initially, don't bother me.  And as we discussed I foresee a couple issues with the proposed layout.  But ultimately your format is a lot better for the reasons you list above.

We'll be switching to the new format over the next day but if you've already submitted there's no need to do so again.  As players complete brackets Morm or I will lock their tabs.  We will have a 24 hour period between the end of betting and the start of the first round which players should use to verify that the data in their locked tab is as they submitted it.

I don't think the script is necessary.  If we want to notify organizers we can have players just PM them.  But given how active our stellar organizers are I don't think even that's necessary.

Thanks for the work you put into making this Event even better, SG.

Also, you may want to take a screenshot of your bets, so that when you check the bets after they have been locked you can prove that they have been altered.

Hm.. I don't think that helps much because the problem is not really participants not being able to prove their results have been altered, problem is results being altered.

Taking a screenshot or finding some other way to record your bets will be important in helping players verify that nothing was changed.

[Scaredgirl]

Code: [Select]

function myFunction() {
  // The code below will email the topleft cell in the active range to another user
  MailApp.sendEmail("worldofelementsevent@gmail.com", "New Colosseum betting has been posted.", "https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgB8fZX7y8kydGw4RlhIS3lMdWpLTWJnQldoX3RGWkE#gid=0"); 
}It's not a perfect solution but it should help a bit. That is if we get rid of that spammy part of the code.

If you know how to make a timer, then you just need to adjust the function with a conditional: something like this with the proper code language (which I do not know).

Edit -> call function:
{If timer == 0 then MailApp.sendEmail etcetera
End If
Set timer = 5 minutes}


This will set the timer at 5 minutes for every edit, meaning you need to come back after 5 full minutes from the last edit before it sends another email. Big problem: I don't know how to set a timer (nor the rest of the coding language, but that's easier as they are almost all the same).

I had another look and seems like Google Docs has a built-in notification system that send email to the owner of the file when something is changes. The best part is that it has a limit. I made a couple of edits and received an email a minute later, telling me that 2 edits had been made.

So no more need for us to code anything as Google does all the work for us.

Taking a screenshot or finding some other way to record your bets will be important in helping players verify that nothing was changed.

Yes, that could be useful I guess.