Proposed Arena Changes

[Ace of Souls]

Original post:  So far, the primary concern that I have about the arena and its decks is the unoriginality that seems to be plaguing most of the higher end decks I've played so far.  This pattern seems to emerge basically in the gold and platinum leagues, more than bronze and silver, but my sample size is only 100 games or so, so I really haven't hit anywhere near all of the 2000 decks in the arena.

In my opinion, the arena was supposed to be an opportunity to make an AI of varying difficulty that allows people to farm for rares without having players put up rare card farms to play against.  In other words, it was supposed to be an incentivized challenge for both deck builders and challengers alike.  For the most part, in the bronze league and silver league, where rare cards are more sparse, the card the oracle gives you doesn't fit so nicely into a rainbow deck that just needs a quick fix to be playable with the new restrictions.  And, of the games I played today, these were the leagues I had the most fun in.  Gold and platinum were challenges, but not in the way I expected.

So, in the efforts of acheiving these two goals, I have a few suggestions for the arena:
 - make the decks more themed to the card the oracle gives you, so you can come up with some cool ideas for decks you didn't think of before
 - make every challenge exciting in the arena, most specifically, not having every deck be a carbon copy with a hint of the oracle's flavor of the day.

My proposed changes further incentivize using the card the oracle gives you:
1) provide some buff to the card you are using that the oracle gives you (or nerf not using it).  I can think of a few different ways to do it:
 - introduce a third level of upgrade to cards.  All oracle provided cards are upped, but if you increase your deck's wisdom, some portion of them are 2x upped
 - OR the oracle's cards don't count towards your deck's limits.  In other words, with the 5 copies of the card the oracle uses, plus the 6 you can use, you are allowed 11 copies of that card in your deck.  This allows new decks that wouldn't be possible with standard rules, and therefore a neat challenge for skilled deckmakers.
 - OR crutch decks by requiring them to include 5 of some specific quanta source for the element of the card they got from the oracle.  So the only sources could be mark, pillars(not quantum pillar), pendulums, ability, or the likes of soulcatcher, solar buckler, etc.
NOTE:  my preference of these options is the third tier of upgrades, but I'm aware that all three options are coding intensive and would require reworking a few coded mechanics already in place.

2) Place bans on specific cards
 - the bans do not need to be permanent.  Rather, have each week be themed.  Credit for this idea goes to somebody else, who posted in a place I can't recall, but if you post claiming it, I'll credit it to you.
 - OR make the bans permanent.  Ban cards that provide non-dedicated elemental quanta.  The problem with this idea is that it DOES remove certain deck ideas that would otherwise be allowed, which is why I am not as strong of a supporter of the ban approach.
 - OR include a "restricted" category.  Like bans, but instead, limit card usage from 6 to 3 or 2.  Make certain cards like supernova that endorse shoving the oracle's card into some CCYB variant less capable of doing so.  Unfortunately, as with banning cards, this also punishes decks that DO use supernova innovatively in a new deck.

3) Since one key element of this game is deck building, treat the arena as a mega deck building challenge.  Instead of playing against the decks, create the ultimate asynchronous PvP system.  Allow your deck to play (with its own buffs) against other decks (with the buffs) but have all games be automated.  Make the arena wholly a deck BUILDING test and not a deck PLAYING test.  It would be interesting seeing a group of decks play against each other in the arena.
 - this idea sounded better when I was thinking about it than it does as I reread it.  But, rather than delete it, I'll leave it up for criticism.  Maybe it will lead to someone else's better idea.

Thoughts?  Oh, and sorry for the wall of text.
I don't actually think we need to make any changes to the arena at the present time.  If you want to see my original (outdated) post, I welcome you to it.  However, the current arena is fulfilling its purpose right now.  Therefore, I have no proposed changes for it.

[roycelin3]

I really agree that there should be variety of decks in the arena, and unfortunately I usually encountered very similar rainbow decks in gold and platinum leagues. I think it's boring so now I don't play against arena but just build decks. The payback from building a deck in the arena is just a little electrum, so I prefer adding an interesting but not competitive deck to the arena. If everyone would do so, the arena would be funny and I would play in the arena again.

[Aves]

Well reasoned.
What I agree with:

Make the arena wholly a deck BUILDING test and not a deck PLAYING test.

I completely agree with this principle... but meting out the value of one's deck building depends on people playing it. Perhaps the Arena should compare the decks with the best stat histories at the end of each month, and give a reward to all players, increasing as rank goes to 1 Scrap the current electrum rewards.

2) Place bans on specific cards
 - the bans do not need to be permanent.  Rather, have each week be themed.  Credit for this idea goes to somebody else, who posted in a place I can't recall, but if you post claiming it, I'll credit it to you.

This. I think this would work beautifully... my only reservation about this is that some oracle given cards would be less effective than others.

What I disagree with:
In response to most of your points in ideas 1 and 2, I don't think they'll work...
Third tiers: It wouldn't be practical- could you imagine facing a FG with third tier cards? It'd basically just add a second period of grind to the game.

Increasing the card limit: Too OP with some cards. Imagine having 11 Siphon Lifes or steals or 11 precogs, and then that doubled with dexteriety for 22.

Crutching decks: Why discriminate against rainbows? If they're popping up everywhere, it's either because
a. the rainbow works.
b. the player does not have the cards to build up a unique mono/duo/trio

Bans and Restrictions: I completely disagree. If the generic rainbow works, why not use it? If its not effective, then it'll get beaten out pretty quickly. Rainbow has the greatest variety of any category.  The only reason it's discriminated against is that people compare 12 separate monos and 132 duos to '1' rainbow. But rainbow is simply a collection of synergies. You can't say that monos or duos are better; what makes spamming synergies in 1 or 2 elements better than rainbows? You can find people spamming Rol/Hope and ghostmare in PvP. If it works, then it gets spammed, and eventually countered.

[bucky1andonly]

There is already a lengthy thread about this.
If you want creative restrictions, play in a tournament, chances of things being banned is next to nothing from what I read, and anyway, banning cards would not encourage creativity.  Instead of one deck being used by 99% of people, it will just be another.

People will make what ever decks they like, if you want creativity in the arena, pm the people with decks that you feel should not be seen in the arena and ask them to be more creative.

[parasite99]

If you want creative restrictions, play in a tournament, chances of things being banned is next to nothing from what I read, and anyway, banning cards would not encourage creativity.  Instead of one deck being used by 99% of people, it will just be another.

Here you are wrong bucky imho.

People after some time when they see the card Oracle gave 'em they will search their list and use the same deck that they used and did well (or one they saw in those threads with top decks). Having some banned cards though, may not allow some cards and even if they replace it with smething else the deck may not be good. So this situation..."what am I going to do now, I can' t use this card of my old deck...do I replace it or try something else?"....will make people use their brains more often and make new decks, try new things.

Maybe this change will be needed at some point, when we start recogninzing every deck only by seeing the oracle-card....then we may make threads and ask for it.

[bucky1andonly]

The bottom line is, people want the arena to be easier, and the quickest way to get that done is to ban sogs, but the arena is not all that hard in the first place, and you can make tons of money and score if you use a good deck.  And a good deck has to be EARNED, meaning if you have to grind AI3 for 2 months to get a fully upgraded deck to fight fgs and/or the arena leagues, then so be it.  No hand outs.

[Ace of Souls]

for the record, I made this thread the day after the arena came out, so the lengthy thread was at that point just a poll about banning QTs, which I don't favor as a solution.

Right now, I don't like any solution that creates banned cards.  As much as people argue it will cause more originality, it is still obvious that less cards to use means less possible deck choices.

I also don't have any problems with the arena as it stands.  People are starting to realize that some modified CCYB isn't as good in an AI's hands as decks specially formatted for the AI's style of play.  And the JMZ Classic isn't good either, because in order to use it properly, it was important to know what combos existed and when to save your cards for use when they have the most effect.  The AI didn't do that.  Most of the unoriginality was because the arena was new and people just threw a deck that they had upped cards for onto the top of the day's pile.

So far, my best decks have been completely rare free.  I find it's best to use those stat points somewhere useful if I can manage it.  And more and more people are realizing that it's not advantageous to just use the standard rainbow deck.

[bucky1andonly]

Poison stall works great against most decks, and the AI has no trouble playing it, since it only consists of poisons, bonewalls, plagues and sogs.  Im currently 45-9 which is decent for 3 days and rank 65 atm, fluctuating up and down, but going down slowly overall.

[Ace of Souls]

Yeah, I have a similar deck doing decent so far.  neurotixin/momentum.  31/3 after 3 days in gold, and completely nonupgraded.  Best rank was at 32.

I'm thinking of making a "how to take advantage of the arena's deck properties" thread, but really don't want to spend the time.  :p

[russianspy1234]

how about this.  whatever card the oracle spins, you are not allowed to include cards of the "enemy" element.  its a minor enough restriction, but should breed some more creativity.

[Artea]

I'm personally fine with the arena as it is so far. It's been in for only a month or so and the metagame is still shifting as people come out with new counter decks and become more acquainted with how the AI handles cards. Because the decks are all player driven, it's hard to say whether or not the metagame will ever even stabillize. Placing bans and restrictions based on arena experiences after such a short time is a terrible idea imho.

how about this.  whatever card the oracle spins, you are not allowed to include cards of the "enemy" element.  its a minor enough restriction, but should breed some more creativity.

First things that came to my mind were steam machines and scarabs Opposing element combos aren't that common in the first place, and are definitely not overused right now. Rainbows will work around it easily enough for most of the elements chosen. It'll just be a huge screwover for a specific selection of cards/strategies while leaving others untouched.