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Toge111

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Fire decks seem to be pretty powerful in the Arena. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29162.msg372175#msg372175
« on: July 27, 2011, 12:07:37 pm »
It seems that oracle-spun cards that are part of common fire decks are very often at the top of leaderboards. At the moment 9 decks out of 30 at the top of silver league have fire mark; gold league 12 out of 30, platinum 12 out of 30. And earth marks might just as well be fire decks, because those two elements have pretty good synergy.

Fire decks have very good combination of permanent control (Explosion), creature control (Fire Lance, Fire Buckler, Fire Storm, Rage Elixir, Fire Nymph), quanta gain (Brimstone Eater, Cremation) and creatures that hit like a truck and grow in power. With double-draws and mark power multipliers the AI is often able to outrush and penetrate whatever defenses the player has. Unlike false gods, player-made decks need not have weaknesses.

How do we counter?

Offline omegareaper7

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Re: Fire decks seem to be pretty powerful in the Arena. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29162.msg372317#msg372317
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 07:08:28 pm »
Use more durable decks, thats what i did for silver league. Gold up would be a bit harder.
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Asinickle

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Re: Fire decks seem to be pretty powerful in the Arena. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29162.msg372333#msg372333
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2011, 07:51:23 pm »
Fire creatures suffer from having horrible low health. Some weak creature control can hurt them pretty bad.

Offline Pineapple

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Re: Fire decks seem to be pretty powerful in the Arena. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29162.msg372345#msg372345
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 08:27:26 pm »
Fire creatures suffer from having horrible low health. Some weak creature control can hurt them pretty bad.
But you also need some healing to deal with the insane damage from just one turn the creature being alive. If they're running 6 x2 explosions, that's sods, protected shields, and protected sogs/cloak+sogs/hourglass bait

all in all, it's still difficult. especially if they use all the control that TS mentioned but no creatures; only lances/fahrenheit.

Offline petersenk

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Re: Fire decks seem to be pretty powerful in the Arena. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29162.msg372373#msg372373
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2011, 10:01:17 pm »
Maybe the arena needs to be weighted/grouped by element, so that all elements are evenly distributed (as enemy) nevertheless. Put in yet another fire-stall? Fine, but you get less plays. Put in a Air-mono deck and get played much more...

wavedash

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Re: Fire decks seem to be pretty powerful in the Arena. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29162.msg372388#msg372388
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 10:40:54 pm »
Considering how Fire is pretty much objectively the most powerful Element in the game, it's not surprising that Fire Arena decks are powerful.

Offline Dwerg

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Re: Fire decks seem to be pretty powerful in the Arena. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29162.msg372409#msg372409
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 11:17:56 pm »
I talked in chat a few days ago about fire being OP due to it's versatility.
cheaper and thus fastest PC
lots of CC
one of the best(if not the best) direct damage spells
the best mono alternative quanta gain card
high dmg creatures

now how are you supposed to make a good deck against fire stall that will do good against most other decks?
Farenheit deals physical damage, so using reflective shields won't help much against it, also in case you use a reflective shield, bolts are still very useful CC
if you use a regular shield, let's say phase shield, fire still have the cheapest cc, and most decks will have a few good deflags, and if you manage to keep that shield up, it won't stop bolts.

the creatures have low health, but still killing a phoenix(for good) is usually a pain,  and let's say you turn that phoenix to ashes and lobo it, so it won't rebirth again, the opponent can still cremate it and get 7~9  :fire quanta to put down some brand new creatures or to increase his bolt/farenheit hits , not to mention that at the same time you'll generate 1 of each quanta, that can be used to incrase the dmg by poison, purifiy yourself, stall with sundial...

Now about how to counter them:
I'd use death, skull shield is more effective against low hp creatures and would solve the phoenix problem, also it's beautiful to use a bonewall and see the stupid ai using RoF on your creatures, deflag isn't that effective against bonewall, you can make pretty good rushes with death, good poison stalls and also maybe make a duo with darkness for some nasty stealing action
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Re: Fire decks seem to be pretty powerful in the Arena. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29162.msg372508#msg372508
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2011, 05:29:10 am »
yeah I caught a lot of flack about control-bows... but 16 of the top 25 in gold are fire/earth... and I am the only time based in the top 25.  Seems like the anger was perhaps misplaced?  The traditional downside of fire decks is they aren't super "card" efficient (especially cremation decks) but when you give them double draw they don't have much of a downside.
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Offline Pineapple

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Re: Fire decks seem to be pretty powerful in the Arena. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29162.msg372543#msg372543
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2011, 07:33:56 am »
now how are you supposed to make a good deck against fire stall that will do good against most other decks?
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,27522.0.html

Offline Fluffboll

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Re: Fire decks seem to be pretty powerful in the Arena. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29162.msg372566#msg372566
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2011, 10:34:11 am »
A few problems with that deck though. In Arena Gold/Plat league all cards are most likely upgraded and has double draw + dexterity the aether/death deck is just way too slow even upgraded to beat a good fire stall.

My biggest gripe with arena is that with Dexterity you can make virtually unbeatable decks with 12 of each card. With that gripe comes the charm of Arena as well though, when you beat these "unbeatable" decks that has a score of 75-3 or something it feels great :)

Offline Pineapple

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Re: Fire decks seem to be pretty powerful in the Arena. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29162.msg372580#msg372580
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2011, 11:40:44 am »
A few problems with that deck though. In Arena Gold/Plat league all cards are most likely upgraded and has double draw + dexterity the aether/death deck is just way too slow even upgraded to beat a good fire stall.

My biggest gripe with arena is that with Dexterity you can make virtually unbeatable decks with 12 of each card. With that gripe comes the charm of Arena as well though, when you beat these "unbeatable" decks that has a score of 75-3 or something it feels great :)
Yeah, dexed up firestalls are annoying, but the dex problem can be taken care of with nightmare and earthquake.

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Re: Fire decks seem to be pretty powerful in the Arena. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29162.msg372673#msg372673
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2011, 03:14:20 pm »
fire stall works.  it can kill you with fahrenheit by itself, only countered by bone wall.  meanwhile you can expect every single creature you play to get slain with fire spells.  lastly, SoG lifegain stalls game to standstill.  very difficult.

best deck would be a counter firestall with bone wall and a protected growing damage source (growth+quint/fahrenheit+protect).  depends if its golem fire or just dragon/CC and stall

*goes back to testing*   :-X
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