*Author

Offline coinichTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1557
  • Reputation Power: 19
  • coinich is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.coinich is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.coinich is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Old to Elements
  • Awards: War #5 Winner - Team Aether
Decks Losing Shocking Amounts of Rank https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28297.msg361366#msg361366
« on: July 05, 2011, 10:45:38 pm »
This morning, I woke up to see my deck had nosedived from ~120 to 627 in Gold rankings.  What changed?  I gained 1 win and 6 losses, going from 45-16 to 46-22.

I replaced it with today's card in a crappy deck.  I came home; I was ranked 1377.  Standings?  1 win, 4 losses.

There's gotta be something wrong here.  I know I'm not the only one with this problem.

Offline Essence

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4340
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 57
  • Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.
  • Voice of the Oracle -- Jezzie's Pimp -- Often Gone
  • Awards: 2nd Trials - Master of Water1st Trials - Master of WaterFG Deck-Designer - The OutcastsShard Madness! Competition WinnerEpic 3 Card Design Competition WinnerElder Recruiter
Re: Decks Losing Shocking Amounts of Rank https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28297.msg361370#msg361370
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2011, 10:51:45 pm »
This is a result of the way that Arena ranks decks.  Each loss counts far more against you than each win counts for you, so your 6 losses far more than counterbalanced your 1 win.   It's trivially easy to get a rank below 500 with just a few losses if you don't have a significant number of wins to counterbalance them.

It's kind of sucky from a losing deck's perspective, but that's how it has to be in order to keep the 0-wins/0-losses mark around 250th place out of 500. 
If something happens and you think it deserves my attention, feel free to PM me. Other than that, I'm probably here if you want to shoot the breeze.

Offline coinichTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1557
  • Reputation Power: 19
  • coinich is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.coinich is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.coinich is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Old to Elements
  • Awards: War #5 Winner - Team Aether
Re: Decks Losing Shocking Amounts of Rank https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28297.msg361381#msg361381
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2011, 11:16:31 pm »
Is it now?  Seems kinda wrong to me, though thats just opinion.  Zanz couldn't just force all decks to start at 250 and force the lowest/weakest ones off?

Offline Essence

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4340
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 57
  • Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Essence is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.
  • Voice of the Oracle -- Jezzie's Pimp -- Often Gone
  • Awards: 2nd Trials - Master of Water1st Trials - Master of WaterFG Deck-Designer - The OutcastsShard Madness! Competition WinnerEpic 3 Card Design Competition WinnerElder Recruiter
Re: Decks Losing Shocking Amounts of Rank https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28297.msg361384#msg361384
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2011, 11:18:38 pm »
Ummm...that's exactly what the above formula does. :)
If something happens and you think it deserves my attention, feel free to PM me. Other than that, I'm probably here if you want to shoot the breeze.

Offline coinichTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1557
  • Reputation Power: 19
  • coinich is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.coinich is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.coinich is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Old to Elements
  • Awards: War #5 Winner - Team Aether
Re: Decks Losing Shocking Amounts of Rank https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28297.msg361397#msg361397
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2011, 11:35:17 pm »
My method didn't weight wins and losses any differently.

Offline YoungSot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1213
  • Reputation Power: 18
  • YoungSot is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.YoungSot is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.YoungSot is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • SootySot!
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake5th Trials - Master of FireWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Decks Losing Shocking Amounts of Rank https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28297.msg361399#msg361399
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2011, 11:45:20 pm »
Gold league in particular seems to have a very large difference between the rating earned by a win and the rating reduced by a loss. Perhaps the relative low number of plays that Gold gets figures into it somehow?

ggabriel2

  • Guest
Re: Decks Losing Shocking Amounts of Rank https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28297.msg361433#msg361433
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2011, 12:48:11 am »
Gold league in particular seems to have a very large difference between the rating earned by a win and the rating reduced by a loss. Perhaps the relative low number of plays that Gold gets figures into it somehow?
That, or the large number of decks submitted. There are probably around ~1500 decks in the gold league right now (I've seen references to rankings of 1300+), maybe more. Remember that the ranking system is designed so that newly submitted decks with no record get pegged at around a ranking of 250--essentially, new decks enter at an artificially inflated ranking around the first quintile (a necessity, since the actual "average" rank is much lower than the T500 cutoff), which means they immediately plummet if they can't keep up. Realize that you need to be in the top 200-250 to actually stay ahead of incoming new decks, which means you need to stay in the top 15% or so of performing decks to avoid getting pushed out by the influx of new decks. It's pretty cutthroat in Gold.

Ace of Souls

  • Guest
Re: Decks Losing Shocking Amounts of Rank https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28297.msg361443#msg361443
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2011, 01:05:50 am »
Gold league in particular seems to have a very large difference between the rating earned by a win and the rating reduced by a loss. Perhaps the relative low number of plays that Gold gets figures into it somehow?
That, or the large number of decks submitted. There are probably around ~1500 decks in the gold league right now (I've seen references to rankings of 1300+), maybe more. Remember that the ranking system is designed so that newly submitted decks with no record get pegged at around a ranking of 250--essentially, new decks enter at an artificially inflated ranking around the first quintile (a necessity, since the actual "average" rank is much lower than the T500 cutoff), which means they immediately plummet if they can't keep up. Realize that you need to be in the top 200-250 to actually stay ahead of incoming new decks, which means you need to stay in the top 15% or so of performing decks to avoid getting pushed out by the influx of new decks. It's pretty cutthroat in Gold.
Yeah, at 15-3, I had a 0 rating, rank 258 (83% winrate)
later, at 22-3, I had a 40-something rating, rank 150 (88% winrate)
now, at 23-4, I'm back down to 18 rating, rank 203 (85% winrate)

It looks like, to stay above 0 rating in gold, you need better than a 5:1 wins:losses ratio.

Offline Marvaddin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1048
  • Country: br
  • Reputation Power: 13
  • Marvaddin is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.Marvaddin is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.
  • War to the Fake Gods!
Re: Decks Losing Shocking Amounts of Rank https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28297.msg361474#msg361474
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2011, 02:04:05 am »
My method didn't weight wins and losses any differently.
Ok, you submit your deck and its just forced to rank 250. You lose your 1st game and what happens? You go to rank 4532786. That could work if you enter the arena with a score between #249 and #251, but just force the position and no score doesnt nothing good.

Offline RootRanger

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3118
  • Reputation Power: 51
  • RootRanger brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.RootRanger brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.RootRanger brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.RootRanger brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.RootRanger brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.RootRanger brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.RootRanger brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.RootRanger brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.RootRanger brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.RootRanger brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.
  • R A I N B R O S
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 13th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday Cake10th Trials - Master of FireElemental Conquest WinnerWriting Competition - Across(tic) the World of ElementsWeekly Tournament Winner1st Grandmaster Battle Winner - FireThere Can Be Only One - 2016 WinnerGold DonorChampionship League 2/2015 2nd Place9th Trials - Master of FireElements: A Game of Politics - WinnerEnder of War War #8 Winner - Team FireWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 1/2013 WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWar #4 Winner - Team DeathChampionship League 3/2011 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBeginners League 2/2011 2nd PlaceWeekly PvP Tournament WinnerWeekly PvP Tournament WinnerBeginners League 1/2011 2nd PlaceWeekly PvP Tournament Winner
Re: Decks Losing Shocking Amounts of Rank https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28297.msg361479#msg361479
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2011, 02:32:09 am »
My method didn't weight wins and losses any differently.
With that method, something at 80-40 would have more points than something at 30-0. I prefer the current way, because it gives more weight to win% and less to number of games played.
Somehow still around, somewhat

Offline CCCombobreaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1028
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 16
  • CCCombobreaker is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.CCCombobreaker is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.CCCombobreaker is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Sometimes still here...
  • Awards: Weekly Tournament WinnerScreenshot #3 Competition WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: Decks Losing Shocking Amounts of Rank https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28297.msg361495#msg361495
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2011, 03:04:22 am »
Deckbuilding mad scientist.  Come by and hang out in my stream!

parasite99

  • Guest
Re: Decks Losing Shocking Amounts of Rank https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28297.msg361509#msg361509
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2011, 03:31:28 am »
^^^ nice one, we have two sides really!!  :-\
That's so much fun!!

I'm not on your side CCC but thx for that post (made me laugh)  :))

 

anything
blarg: