Banning Supernova, Quantum Tower, and SoG from Arena (Yet another new poll)

[Tiko]

The only problem I see with majofa's idea:

Example:
The oracle shows you a Steam Machine.
Life, Time, and Gravity lightens up (random) on the wheel.

So this way you are forced to make a Steam deck, possibly with a multiplied fire mark, and besides that you have 3 other elements that you use; and they may have close to no good use to you at all.

Of course, with the example above, you sure will make one creative deck, but most often than not your deck will drop out quickly from the league in subject; because others got lucky, and maybe spun some natural synergies that day.

Besides this it's a nice idea, though I doubt the Oracle is programmed to make any coherency between the things he would show.

[bucky1andonly]

60 healing?  3 flying adrenalined staffs anyone?  60 healing is no big deal, especially since i have never played against an arena deck that has been able to get all 12 out.  We have weekly tournaments with more than enough restrictions to satisfy all your banning needs.  No restrictions = fun for all, and I mean this too, because there are 2000+ decks in all 4 arena categories that you can play against, yet we don't have anything close to that number in votes.  so the elements forum community should not dictate how all the non forum people should play the game.  I'm sure quite a few would join the forum after such a drastic change wondering why they can't play with certain cards any more.  There is just not enough people involved in the voting to make this kind of change happen ever.  It's around 110 people voting each time, so 110/2000 is not enough and until there is at least 50% of the people playing elements involved, any change should not happen.  It would not be fair to those that do not use the forum.

-edit-
ferox, firequeen, both use feral bonds, and both can get a full field of creatures.  both have 12 feral bonds, and with 23 creatures in play that is a crap load of healing (276 hp/turn), so why havent these fgs been nerfed?  thats too much healing, boohoo, no, just no.  sogs are fine.

[Selvaria]

The only problem I see with majofa's idea:

Example:
The oracle shows you a Steam Machine.
Life, Time, and Gravity lightens up (random) on the wheel.

So this way you are forced to make a Steam deck, possibly with a multiplied fire mark, and besides that you have 3 other elements that you use; and they may have close to no good use to you at all.

Of course, with the example above, you sure will make one creative deck, but most often than not your deck will drop out quickly from the league in subject; because others got lucky, and maybe spun some natural synergies that day.

Besides this it's a nice idea, though I doubt the Oracle is programmed to make any coherency between the things he would show.

However luck already played a huge part even before that idea got implemented. Someone might get QT or gravity nymph while I'm having Chimera. It will still be a good, if not temporary solution I think.

[whitevo]

umm i got idea, let oracle choose you 3 different card?
this way you will get 15 unmoveable cards.
You can still make it over to rainbow deck, but is it worth it?

and idk if you want it push it into extreme u can limit arena decks to max size 35 (then u will have only 20 new cards avaible to add including that 10 of them usually is pillars)

[Tiko]

However luck already played a huge part even before that idea got implemented. Someone might get QT or gravity nymph while I'm having Chimera. It will still be a good, if not temporary solution I think.

Luck is always a factor in a game like this. Still, I did not get either QTs, nymphs, golems and such since Arena was introduced, and right now I'm still 3rd at Plat league with some lowly ice bolts (without any healing). It's just what you make of it, I believe.

[BluePriest]

Thank God Zanz has already said that he ignores polls. Although QuantumT's reasoning wasnt because of the difficulty, im guessing at least half of the people who voted used that as the reasoning. People need to stop complaining when people do stuff they dont like (ie not make creative enough decks). What grade are we in again?

[Xenocidius]

The only problem I see with majofa's idea:

Example:
The oracle shows you a Steam Machine.
Life, Time, and Gravity lightens up (random) on the wheel.

So this way you are forced to make a Steam deck, possibly with a multiplied fire mark, and besides that you have 3 other elements that you use; and they may have close to no good use to you at all.

Of course, with the example above, you sure will make one creative deck, but most often than not your deck will drop out quickly from the league in subject; because others got lucky, and maybe spun some natural synergies that day.

Besides this it's a nice idea, though I doubt the Oracle is programmed to make any coherency between the things he would show.

For Steam Machine, multiplied Fire Mark and/or pendulums will solve it. And you don't have to use all the elements the Oracle lights up, you're just restricted to those ones.

[BluePriest]

youre forgetting that water didnt light up on the wheel. Have fun playing your steam machine.
stupid comment is stupid.

[bucky1andonly]

I enjoy making decks with 6 sogs and 6 sancs now, can't wait til the oracle gives me a life card, then I will use feral bonds and mitosis and ray of lights and sogs and sanctuaries and miracles and sods and a couple hopes for defense.  That would be fun.

[Hodari]

umm i got idea, let oracle choose you 3 different card?
this way you will get 15 unmoveable cards.

Yeah you'd be able to get real creative with nearly half of your deck already determined by the oracle and likely most of the rest being taken up by pillars/towers

Seriously though, if there are too many rainbows out there, just play anti-rainbow decks or even post strong anti-rainbow decks on the forums so more people start using them against arena.  Rainbow decks will lose more and either people will switch or their decks will get pushed out quickly by the ones that do.

Not to mention that yes, people CAN just throw together a rainbow and add in whatever cards the oracle gives, even as dead cards..but for a deck to be really effective, ideally ALL of the cards should work together well.  A deck with 5 dead cards in it won't be as strong and while it might survive in the top 500, it's unlikely to do nearly as well as one that is properly designed.  Maybe better rewards for the top decks would help.

Things are already set up to encourage a certain amount of creativity though, and if people STILL don't want to, it's unlikely that any amount of rules or banned cards will really change this.  Ban rainbows and they'll just move to the next most effective type of deck(and there will ALWAYS be something that is slightly more effective than others).  Eliminate rainbows and it could be as simple as just making a duo out of whatever the oracle gives you + fractal + best creatures from that element + any special quanta generators etc.  In any case, they will find some way to make a generic deck if they really want to.

On the other hand, for those who DO want to be creative, there are already plenty of options to do so.  As an example, a couple days ago, I spun Charger as my oracle card..should be able to make something good out of that right?  except that I quickly realized I had no gravity towers whatsoever.  Rather than just skipping that day or going with the "lol just throw it in a rainbow" approach though, I thought about it a bit, remmebered I did have some earth pendula upgraded, and put together a duo.  That deck is currently at a record of 32-1(the one loss so far coming immediately after I submitted it and while I was still testing it myself..I made a couple minor changes and it hasn't lost since)

As for SoGs, if they're that much of a problem for you, there is a simple solution:  Use some permanent control.  Not too hard to figure that one out.  And if people start using a lot of protect artifacts to prevent that..well if they have 12 SoG and 12 PA(and probably 12 sancs as well), that's a LOT of cards in there deck used up by that which can't be used to kill you..so then you can either try to outrush them and kill before they get all their healing in play or just try to outlast them and go for deckout.  At most, maybe some of these cards should be restricted so you can only use a certain number in a deck, but outright banning them is definitely overkill.  Even restricting cards should only be done in cases where there is no effective counter available(or at least where the only counters that do exist are very limited or only available to one or 2 elements). 

Lastly, the flaming on here(from both sides) needs to stop or else I would say one of the mods needs to just lock this thread.  If you can't make an intelligent rational argument for your point of view without resorting to name-calling, comparing people to Hitler, or typing in all caps and 40 point font..chances are pretty good you've already lost the argument at that point and should just find something better to do with your time.

[BluePriest]

People will continue to use rainbows if they are successful. If they stop being successful, people will stop using them. Instead of banning them, why dont we use peer pressure (ie annialate all the good decks with rainbow counters) so they will stop being used?

[pervepic]

I couldn't express my thoughts better than Hodari just did . You can't force people to be creative.