Banning Supernova, Quantum Tower, and SoG from Arena (Yet another new poll)

[The_Mormegil]

However, people should learn not to use them as a crutch.  Ideally we see a majority of duos with mono's and trios sprinkled in.  A few rainbows don't hurt, but only if they are somewhat creative/unique in design.

Problem with that is that Rainbow-like decks WORK. And you are paid for your deck -> you want your deck to work. If payback is too low and you don't want it anymore you get farms. To get rid of both you need to get rid of both deck payment AND spins. But that would just lead to people not really caring.

[CCCombobreaker]

The problem to me, is that the 'anyone can make this' rainbow + oracle decks outperform many other deck builds.  My 2 oracleBow decks went a combined 50-26 (skeleton, pufferfish), but when I tried to build a legit mono air with wings, and even put a full upgrade fractix, both fell out of the top 500 within 10 games.  People say 'they will build counters to the oracleBow, and change the meta', but that just isn't happening yet.  Most people still use FG farmers which get hosed by 8steal, 8 deflag, 6 EQ, 8 BH, 8 Thunderstorm, 6 RT decks.  Until the meta evolves, why should I get creative if my creative decks get played 10 times and make me no money? 

[jmdt]

The problem to me, is that the 'anyone can make this' rainbow + oracle decks outperform many other deck builds.  My 2 oracleBow decks went a combined 50-26 (skeleton, pufferfish), but when I tried to build a legit mono air with wings, and even put a full upgrade fractix, both fell out of the top 500 within 10 games.  People say 'they will build counters to the oracleBow, and change the meta', but that just isn't happening yet.  Most people still use FG farmers which get hosed by 8steal, 8 deflag, 6 EQ, 8 BH, 8 Thunderstorm, 6 RT decks.  Until the meta evolves, why should I get creative if my creative decks get played 10 times and make me no money? 

I've made 2 non rainbow decks and both have > 90% win rate.  Do they use mean cards, of course.  Both are also legitimate trainer tested decks that contain thought and synergy.  I'd like to argue a duo or trio based on a mean combo of cards would be more effective than a rainbow based on the same combo.  Rainbows are can do anything, but at the cost of speed.  With a mono/duo/trio you must make your deck more focused, but it gains an advantage in speed and reliability.  Even in T50, I put up monos and duos as 'biting farms'; these were built on sound deck principles and in their own right were successful PvP decks.  Getting feedback, many of these decks had >50% win rate, some even closer to 75%.  Non rainbows work, they just take work to get there.

[The_Mormegil]

Non rainbows work, they just take work to get there.

While rainbows work, and they don't take work to get there.

[Leo]

This is a game in which people play to WIN. If Rainbow decks are the best, win/lose wise, people will use them.
This is why Platinum has the same deck over and over. And it IS broken. C'mon, 12 Explosions, 12 Steals, 12 SoGs...

In my opinion, QT should be banned, and SNovas too.

[willng3]

When I see rainbow, I rush him out of the gym.  Rainbow gets stronger with time...so don't give him any.  DFSBE FTL.

After 25 games DFSBE managed to kill Rainbow a whopping 4 times.  Every single game I drew a Quantum Tower, over 80% of my games consisted of immediate SN play; in other words, if I lost, it had nothing to do with bad luck.  So yeah when I said there wasn't a reliable counter to it on the forums, I meant there wasn't a reliable counter to it on the forums.

[Calindu]

Now i think we need to take out BH and SoG's/Sanctuaryes.I just got decked out by one guy with 8 SoG's out at a moment.

[Avenger]

No.

That makes the arena biased. Unbiased arena > Biased arena.

What, and having every single deck used the same cards is unbiased?

I don't think they use the same cards. I saw very diverse decks.

[jmdt]

This is a game in which people play to WIN. If Rainbow decks are the best, win/lose wise, people will use them.
This is why Platinum has the same deck over and over. And it IS broken. C'mon, 12 Explosions, 12 Steals, 12 SoGs...

In my opinion, QT should be banned, and SNovas too.

There is no data to support that rainbow decks are the best for platinum.  We do however know it takes much less effort and deck buiding skill to put a working one together.  I have a duo and *gasp* a trio with over 90 % win rates.  God forbid someone actully take time to plan out, quanta balance, and test a deck before submission to the arena rather than dumping a bunch of cards and QT's together.

[ggabriel2]

There is no data to support that rainbow decks are the best for platinum.  We do however know it takes much less effort and deck buiding skill to put a working one together.  I have a duo and *gasp* a trio with over 90 % win rates.  God forbid someone actully take time to plan out, quanta balance, and test a deck before submission to the arena rather than dumping a bunch of cards and QT's together.

Also, I think it bears consideration that putting rainbows together, by and large, takes vastly less money than duo/trio decks. True, rainbows are often fatter and costlier to build than your typical mono/duo/trio--but once you build them you have a lot of cards that can easily be reshuffled into other decks. There are plenty of different styles of rainbow decks that have varying strengths and weaknesses despite sharing a good number of cards (particularly towers/supernovas)--once you have one, you can easily build others. Mono/duo/trio decks, in contrast, are by their nature more specialized and it's a steeper investment to build them since you need a huge pool of cards for each individual element. Towers are the biggest culprit, especially with pendulums in the mix--being able to get your game going one turn earlier makes them a hugely important upgrade, you need tons of them, and they're not easily transferable between decks of different elements. So that might be a contributing factor to lack of variety.

[jmdt]

There is no data to support that rainbow decks are the best for platinum.  We do however know it takes much less effort and deck buiding skill to put a working one together.  I have a duo and *gasp* a trio with over 90 % win rates.  God forbid someone actully take time to plan out, quanta balance, and test a deck before submission to the arena rather than dumping a bunch of cards and QT's together.

Also, I think it bears consideration that putting rainbows together, by and large, takes vastly less money than duo/trio decks. True, rainbows are often fatter and costlier to build than your typical mono/duo/trio--but once you build them you have a lot of cards that can easily be reshuffled into other decks. There are plenty of different styles of rainbow decks that have varying strengths and weaknesses despite sharing a good number of cards (particularly towers/supernovas)--once you have one, you can easily build others. Mono/duo/trio decks, in contrast, are by their nature more specialized and it's a steeper investment to build them since you need a huge pool of cards for each individual element. Towers are the biggest culprit, especially with pendulums in the mix--being able to get your game going one turn earlier makes them a hugely important upgrade, you need tons of them, and they're not easily transferable between decks of different elements. So that might be a contributing factor to lack of variety.

In the platinum ranks, any player should have a ton of upped cards.  This includes towers/pendulums.  Most gold players will have a share of upped towers and pends as well.

[ggabriel2]

In the platinum ranks, any player should have a ton of upped cards.  This includes towers/pendulums.  Most gold players will have a share of upped towers and pends as well.

It depends a bit on your gold:score ratio. A dedicated FG farmer is going to have pretty much all the upgrades they would ever want by the time they hit platinum, because most of their money is coming from card sales that don't affect their score. Someone grinding the whole way up via AI3 and T50 is not going to have anywhere near everything upgraded, and chances are most of their upgrades are going to be aimed towards rainbow decks (because again, it makes economic sense to upgrade the most flexible cards first instead of sinking 50k into building a more specialized mono.) I regularly see unupped cards in gold and plat, although admittedly there's no real way to tell if that's because people are unwilling to sink points into boosting the upped card limit for their arena deck or if they're unable to field a fully upgraded arena deck. By the time you're high enough level to max everything, yeah, you've got everything upgraded period.