Banning Supernova, Quantum Tower, and SoG from Arena (Yet another new poll)

[bucky1andonly]

i use my voodoo deck, same one i use against fgs, and i win plenty against platinum, shard or no shard, as long as they have creatures i have usually won.


----Tip----
If you want to make money, go farm false gods, the arena I would assume is more for a competitive aspect other than pvp.  So really, the money shouldn't be the issue ever.  It is to see if you can beat these over powered decks. 


Personally, I like challenges, so there is no reason to ban any card just because you can't seem to win.  Build a better deck, or go play level 0!!

[zse]

2# Keep the duplication and extra draw as it is and if you activated it, no more than 3 copies can be put in the deck, that way when the deck is duplicated there will be 6 copies in the final deck. The only exception would be the oracle card that would have 10 copies which seems fair and would make decks centered around what card you got. Now there wont be any, way too overpowered rushes I believe.

Great idea! I'm all for it. Now where did I see that posted before, oh yeah, there it was:

Another patch:
- Fixed the bug that didn't allow adding upped cards to the regular deck
- Added a button to test your own Arena deck
- When the AI is drawing 2 cards per turn it will refrain from chaining more than two of the following:
Silence
Nightmare
Earthquake
Black Hole

Great thing to be able to test own Arena deck!

I think chaining those cards wasn't the real root of this problem. I think it was more due to the fact that there was 12 of those in a double-sized deck, so could that thing be changed somehow? For example using Dexterity Skill that doubles card drawing and deck size would also forbid you to use more than 3 or 4 same cards (doubled to 6 or 8 ) in your Arena deck.

Great minds think whatever...

[Demacry]

Like in an RTS game, the cards/units should be universally the same throughout all the match types. Changing the stats of some cards or completely banning others would do more than break the staleness of some of the decks used in the arena, it would take away the options for other potential uses of the cards as well (ie. using quantum towers in combo with upped dissipation shield and a x3 mark in a mono-entropy deck).

The only time I used a rainbow deck with the oracles cards was Day 1 with the skeletons. Since then Ive actually been enjoying just trying to make a deck that conforms to the handicap and is still effective. I dont think the problems presented by SN and QT are present as much in Bronze, Silver, and to an extent, Gold. My suggestions to fix whatever the percieved problems with the Arena are would be to add a secondary, minor handicap to Gold and either two minor handicaps to Platinum or one major handicap.

Some of possible caps could be, -not being able to reuse cards used in the previous day's deck, -no more than 3 element types to the deck, -must use # of cards in the day's deck, etc. etc.

I also think that if diversity is the goal then players only having enough SP to max on 3 of the 4 benefits could go a ways to forcing some adaptations.

I'm nowhere near as experienced with this game as several of the people who have already posted on this subject but even I know that if everyone is choosing the same options the answer is not to lock those doors but to either present more options or just make those doors a weird shape.

[lskpiano]

Rock is OP, Paper is OK.
-Scissors

This.

[Marvaddin]

And I believe that reason is, not because of the usage, but in the early days, there weren't as many shards, so putting them into fg decks would only have increased the number of shards drastically, and considering they are more rare than weapons, as a developer, you wouldn't want your game rampant with shards in the early goings.  But now, I don't see any reason why some of the fgs can't have their decks changed a bit to incorporate some shards.  The community now has lots, and are fairly easy to come by.

This really fits your portrait, I think. 

I assume veterans had a lot of shards a long time ago. Although, of course FGs were never a place to farm rares. Really dunno why zanz never had the *bright* idea of creating a shard user FG. How about both SoDs and SoGs, plus Sanctuaries, Miracle, Granite Skin, PA, Spine Carapace, Bonds, and some critters? In fact, some Druidic Staves, Adrenalines and AWs could be good, too. Hmmmm... maybe FGs arent supposed to have a superb healing skill, along with superb PC, CC, best critters, increased drawing rates, etc, all packed in a single deck.

The community has lots of Shards. And fresh players, will it be simple to a starter get Shards, needing 6 consecutive wins in bronze league to get a chance of getting a random rare?

To person that asked, Rainbow FG deck is surely suboptimal, and I would still be up for removing it, if you ask me.

Platinum rewards are good, ok. So, should be hard opponents, correct. Like there is no way to create hard decks not using QT. It wouldnt make it easy, just interesting. If its even close to easy (and I seriously doubt it), the dinamic reward system would correct it. People would beat Platinum, its rewards would decrease, people would play other leagues. But again, I believe its far from happening.

I stick with my opinion: ban QT and Shards would make it INTERESTING, not easy. But lets see. If in some weeks you guys are tired of facing rainbows, maybe your opinions can change. While there are like 40-50% of rainbows, I think I will just not play Platinum too much.

[wavedash]

I cannot understand how this poll isn't overwhelmingly pro-ban. You can make a deck with 6 Quantum Towers, 6 Supernovas, 3 Graboids, three Recluses, Lava Destroyer, Pegasus, and then just throw in whatever crappy card the Oracle gave you. Might there be a more effective deck than that? Sure. Does it go against the spirit of spinning the Oracle and forming a deck around what Lady Luck gives you? Definitely.

[coinich]

I cannot understand how this poll isn't overwhelmingly pro-ban. You can make a deck with 6 Quantum Towers, 6 Supernovas, 3 Graboids, three Recluses, Lava Destroyer, Pegasus, and then just throw in whatever crappy card the Oracle gave you. Might there be a more effective deck than that? Sure. Does it go against the spirit of spinning the Oracle and forming a deck around what Lady Luck gives you? Definitely.

Because pro-ban is a horrible idea that arbitrarily bans cards based on what people play?  The environment needs time to develop counters, not immediately remove cards because we haven't collectively come up with a solution.

[willng3]

I'm tempted to go pro-ban simply because I don't feel it's right that Black Hole is largely ineffective against a large percentage of decks where it should serve as a hard counter in most normal cases and yet is laughed at because it can't keep up with the speed/quanta generation at all. 
On the other hand, Rainbow has always had nearly 50 Quantum Towers in its deck so this is definitely not the first time we've encountered this type of problem. 
In saying that, however, I'm almost certain than very few of us expected that type of deck format to appear on such a wide scale and it does bother me that this is the case since as of right now there is still currently no single deck listed here on these forums that has a great enough winrate to be known as a Rainbow(FG) counter.  The potential for 500 of these types of decks to exist at any one time is what makes me concerned for the following reason:
There are a fair number of people who upon receiving Rainbow as their FG of the day from the Oracle would opt to refresh the page rather than fight that FG just because there is a greater chance of them winning against almost anything else even if it is a completely random pairing process against a normal FG grinder.
So if the Platinum metagame becomes nothing but these types of decks then isn't there a possibility of it becoming completely unplayed altogether?

I'd feel much more at ease if there was a limit set on these cards altogether as they are completely balanced and playable in moderation.

[Ashebrethafe]

I voted no, because I don't think it would really solve the problem -- how do you know that rainbow decks are the only ones that can handle the dead cards? (They're not the only large competitive decks, if that's what you're going by. My mono-fire deck had more than 50 cards when it reached 500 score, and I had just won five pvp1 matches in a row.) Also, rainbows aren't the only decks that use Quantum Pillars/Towers -- my water deck currently contains every card of that element, and uses QPs to power the abilities of the Toadfish and Mind Flayers.

On the other hand, I wouldn't just throw the cards in and let them be dead draws. I'd buy pillars/pendulums (if necessary) and change the quantum base so they could be played -- or if they were pillars or pendulums, put in something that could be played with the quanta they generated -- and maybe take out some of the less powerful cards. For example, when I took my main account to the beta, it had an earth deck and I spun a Burning Pillar; my Arena deck was my existing deck plus the five BPs and five Lava Golems for them to power, and minus six Stone Pillars and four Stone Dragons.

[bucky1andonly]

My voodoo deck beats the rainbow decks in platinum silly.  As long as they have creatures it is usually an easy win, just like when I face the FG rainbow.  So it's not like there is no suitable deck to use, it's just that people choose not to use it.

@ Marv
I think Zanz wanted people to donate in the early stages of the game, and that was how they got shards. 

Farms can still exist I think.  I threw together a miracle/morningstar farm, with fire as my mark and I had ruby dragons from the oracle.


@ the rainbow deck makers
Expand your mind and be more creative.

[Antervis]

I don't think some cards should be banned, but I really believe some cards should be limited. Every third arena deck is a doubled rainbow with BH/steals/explosions/EQ, this makes farm REALLY hard. You can do nothing when stealing/exploding not only permanents, but even pillars is so cheap to the enemy.

[jmdt]

I'm tempted to go pro-ban simply because I don't feel it's right that Black Hole is largely ineffective against a large percentage of decks where it should serve as a hard counter in most normal cases and yet is laughed at because it can't keep up with the speed/quanta generation at all. 
On the other hand, Rainbow has always had nearly 50 Quantum Towers in its deck so this is definitely not the first time we've encountered this type of problem. 
In saying that, however, I'm almost certain than very few of us expected that type of deck format to appear on such a wide scale and it does bother me that this is the case since as of right now there is still currently no single deck listed here on these forums that has a great enough winrate to be known as a Rainbow(FG) counter.  The potential for 500 of these types of decks to exist at any one time is what makes me concerned for the following reason:
There are a fair number of people who upon receiving Rainbow as their FG of the day from the Oracle would opt to refresh the page rather than fight that FG just because there is a greater chance of them winning against almost anything else even if it is a completely random pairing process against a normal FG grinder.
So if the Platinum metagame becomes nothing but these types of decks then isn't there a possibility of it becoming completely unplayed altogether?

I'd feel much more at ease if there was a limit set on these cards altogether as they are completely balanced and playable in moderation.

When I see rainbow, I rush him out of the gym.  Rainbow gets stronger with time...so don't give him any.  DFSBE FTL.

As far as quantum towers, I don't have a problem with them per say.  Honestly, when I see Quantum towers when they are not the oracle card it to me is a sign or poor deck building.  Anyone can stick quantum towers in a deck with 5 cards and make a rainbow.  I'd like to see more creative decks, especially from the folk in platinum that have the upgrades to make almost anything.  T500 should be about creativity and a deck building showcase, not a place to have the same rainbow and move 5 cards in and out every few days.  So should QT be banned, no.  However, people should learn not to use them as a crutch.  Ideally we see a majority of duos with mono's and trios sprinkled in.  A few rainbows don't hurt, but only if they are somewhat creative/unique in design.