Banning Supernova, Quantum Tower, and SoG from Arena (Yet another new poll)

[Rastafla]

The problem is not the cards. If the problem is with the cards you balance them not prohibiting them. The next step in that line of reasoning is removing QTs and Novas from the game.
Gimping the AI? Thats just absurd.

The problem is the design of the "platinum" arena. The bonuses are too great and not balanced. When you allow players to build any decks with up to twice the amount of HP and doubled the natural drawpower and doubled card count and thrice the amount of quantageneration from the start, you create problems, one of the problems is called imbalance. It doesn't take a genius to know it wouldnt work. Its a pure design problem. Because contrary to the customdesigned FGs humans targets a weakness and then goes after that weakness 100% and with the all the bonuses piled on top each other you get imbalance levels off the scale.

This is a pure design problem. Its no surprise I vote No.

[QuantumT]

I would like to point out to anyone claiming that the choices of cards as arbitrary is incredibly inaccurate. It may or may not be the best solution, but there is a very specific problem that this is trying to address.

[Leo]

IMO, all problems come from the double draw.

What if... the person with Double Draw skill would be allowed only 3 copies of each card in the deck, instead of 6?
This way, he/she would draw as a god, but would only pack 6 SoGs, steals, explosions..., i.e. (which is the biggest problem right now, i think).

[ggabriel2]

I do think that the Arena suffers badly from a lack of deck variety at the higher levels, for rewards that are questionable considering the difficulty. I don't think a flat ban on big rainbow quanta cards is the best answer, though. I'd rather see the Oracle come up with newer and tougher restrictions, because 10 cards in a 100+ card deck with double draws are not much of a limitation, especially considering you're usually going to spin something halfway decent every couple of days.

[pervepic]

I totally agree with Rastafla; and I agree with Snoweb too, Dexterity (double-draw) should cost (a lot) more and quanta generation a bit more.  But I don't like banning cards and making AI stupid.

[Seraph]

I don't think anything should be banned, but I do really hope for one thing, stopping nova and pillars from ending up in the oracle, it's just kind of stupid, as it's not forcing you to use a card really, but it does cause trouble

also, I don't think double draw is that bad, because double draw can lead to horrible draws. I had an immoskellie deck the first time I made an arena deck, and it flopped with double draw, because the draws are a lot more inconsistent. The same way, you see people getting a chain of 6 silences in the top 15 cards of the 70 card deck.

Arena decks are OP, but that's kind of the point

[The_Mormegil]

I post here my feedback on the main thread too, because that's the reason i voted for No.

Add a score bonus for every bonus spin, based on League. Turn Arena into the Ultimate Challenge, worth it not for money, not for rares (Bronze is for those), but for SCORE. Turn it into something only the true PRO will farm, and with the best decks against the best decks. That way it will become worth it: I trust this community to create decks up to the challenge if you can gain more score with this than with AI3 farming. Because, frankly, it's kind of sad that the ultimate frontier of this game is level 3 pummeling.

Every time you get a rare spin, you gain 35 / 105 / 315 / 945 extra score. 1000 score for three consecutive wins on Platinum? I bet it WILL be farmed.

Of course, the number can and probably MUST be tweaked. But I trust veterans' judgement on this subject: finding a good balance will result into Arena becoming really awesome, balanced or not.

[Hyroen]

In theory, all cards are currently balanced, otherwise we should be seeing some serious balancing in 1.28. Should Supernova and Quantum Towers be overpowered, they will be taken care of. I think the "stats" we assign to our decks also require some sort of strategy. A rainbow deck may not benefit from a 3x :aethermark as much as a Mono-Aether. A Lava Golem rush might not benefit from 200HP as much as a / stall.

I personally like the Arena the way it is, and if there is a problem in design, maybe the discussed "guilt" should apply to any card that is reused from your previous Arena deck. For any reused card, the deck suffers 5HP "guilt/age"?

A no from me...

[CCCombobreaker]

I agree, unless people get heavy PvP pieces (immo/golem, gotp/nightmare, or other nasty deck pieces) then it doesn't make much sense to not run the rainBro deck.  I made a rainbow deck on day 1 with skeleton and went 10-4.  Day 2 I got puffer fish and used the same deck but with the new card and went 17-8.  BH, steal, deflag, SoG, Sanc, hourglass.  I never played it myself, but I bet it just denied people and decked them, maybe the skeletons or fish slowly killed them?  Anyways, I really regret this trend or my partaking in it.  Today I got soul catcher and made some silly immo death hybrid.  I doubt it will go 2:1 on wins, but the rainBro decks get old fast.

[ggabriel2]

In theory, all cards are currently balanced, otherwise we should be seeing some serious balancing in 1.28.

This theory falls flat because card balance varies wildly in different environments. A card that's balanced for PvP might be completely overpowered in the hands of a 200 HP deck with double draw and 3x mark.

The issue on the table isn't even necessarily that supernova and quantum towers are overpowered per se, just that they're overcrowding the arena and hurting variety. When the Oracle gives you a random card to build a deck around, half the time it means "build a standard rainbow deck that happens to have 5 extra cards which will hardly matter since you're drawing through the deck at double speed anyhow." Doesn't really foster creative deckbuilding.

That said, a universal ban really isn't called for. I like your suggested guilt penalty, although I'm not sure if you mean -5 HP for each copy or just for each card type. I'd be all for a fairly hard cap (I don't think completely non-overlapping decks would be a particularly onerous requirement), so -5 per copy sounds better to me. It might make sense to make it span a couple of decks (maybe any decks used in the past 3 days?), too, otherwise it would be pretty easy to circumvent--if it was just your last deck then you could put up your standard rainbow and run it until the HP loss starts hurting, switch to a throwaway deck with zero overlap, then go in the next day and reuse your regular deck base without penalty. You'd still get to use standard decks 90% of the time.

[Leo]

By reading all the posts I come to the conclusion that.. yes, Arena decks shouldn't have QTs. Or SoGs. That's it.

[TheCrazyMango]

if these were to be banned, surely creamation would also be banned