Deck Concepts

[ShiningSword]

EDIT: the poll is up. You better start voting, because if i dont see exactly 32 votes when we end the poll, i will hunt down whoever did not vote(no world is big enough for you to hide, non voters ).
We need to get them here and choose the ones we are going to use.
I will start making copies of what we had:
Scrambled Shriekers:

by ShiningSword

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Dragon OTK:

by ShiningSword

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4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vf 4vj 4vj 4vj 52h 560 5bt 5f2 5li 5op 5rp 5rp 5rp 5ul 61t 61t 61t 63a 63a 63a 7q5 7q5 7q5 8ps

Rainbow Rush:

by ShiningSword

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Rise of the Lycans:

by ShiningSword

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Immolation Variation?:

by ShiningSword

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Air/death:

by ShiningSword

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52j 52j 52j 52o 52o 52o 52q 52q 52q 52t 52t 5oe 5oe 5oe 5oi 5oi 5oo 5oo 5oo 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 8pk

Grav/poison:

by ShiningSword

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52o 52o 52o 52u 52u 52u 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55l 55l 55m 55m 55m 55q 55q 55q 561 562 562 562 8pk

Grav/earth:

by ShiningSword

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55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55l 55l 55l 55m 55m 55m 55r 55r 55r 561 562 562 58t 58t 58t 595 595 595 8pm

UW poison:

by ShiningSword

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Entropy/Fire:

by ShiningSword

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4vd 4vd 4vd 4vl 4vl 4vl 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 5f2 5f2 5f2 5f6 5f6 5f6 5fc 5fc 5fc 8po

Diss field:

by ShiningSword

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All CC(i have no idea whats the mark):

by ShiningSword

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Denial:

by ShiningSword

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GotP/Denial:

by ShiningSword

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Graboid/Gotp(purple):

by ShiningSword

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Graboid/Gotp(original):

by ShiningSword

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58o 58o 58o 58o 58q 58q 58q 590 590 590 593 593 593 595 595 595 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5aa 5rk 5rk 5rk 5ru 5ru 5ru 8ps

LT/Gen Air/Death:

by ShiningSword

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Gravity Voodoo:

by ShiningSword

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Death/Fire

by ShiningSword

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52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52p 52p 52p 52q 52q 52q 52t 52t 52t 542 542 542 542 542 542 5f3 5f3 5f3 5f6 5f6 5f6 5fb 5fb 5fb 8po

Ak's deck:

by ShiningSword

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Disclaimer: some marks of the rainbows could be wrong, feel free to correct it.
My comments:
Scrambled: I like the deck concept(i prefer entropy mark for the common one but pends are better here i think), but i have no idea if it works or not. I would say it needs a reliability test(to make sure it draws what it needs fast enough).
Dragon OTK: Changing. - novas, + pillars. + 3 PA.
Rainbow: maybe a more offencive mark would give it speed(like earth,or something similar). I prefer Fog to wings as a shield(less counterable).
Lycans: I like this one. Very nice denial, and the lycans are great mass attackers.
Immo: If 6 immos can cause draw problems, i dont know how reliable 3 of them are. Needs a reliability test.
Air/death(both): If they get them, they wreck them. If they dont get them, they get wrecked. Too much of a gamble for me. Need to be compared.
Grav/poison: Gravity isnt my favourite element to splash in our vault, because it is kind of slow. Deathstalkers deck can fail with 6 of each, so 3 of each isnt a nice gamble.
Grav/earth: See above. Rushes usually beat the BBed armagios, and plated oty's out(i have played with this deck concept before, it has issues).
UW poison: Changing. Recovering fog shields, droping demon + buckler, changing PC for CC.
Entropy/Fire: I have my doubts about its ability to kill the opponent fast enough(it has discord to compensate, but im not sure if is enough).
Diss field: You were really bored when you made this .
All CC: considering our card supply is scarce, our opponents might try to stall us. This deck cant beat stalls, at all(and it doesnt have good chances against some rushes), so im not sure.
Denial: Me likes Denial. Period. Using it against darkness is not recomended(they will steal sancs and use them to over come denial).
Gotp/denial: I like it, but we should compare it to other decks before deciding.
Graboid/Gotp(both): They look relatively fine, we can only have one of them. The one that wins the most in 20 matches should stay as a candidate.
Trap bow: Trap bows are good, But they are widely known and started as a war deck for earth, then they were comverted into a PvP deck and used in BL, so they are predictable.
Death/Fire: Plague isnt the best CC ever, bonewall could come out as better. Spirits dont have as much punch as you would believe unless they are protected(they usually get CCed before they by the 10s). Maybe phoenixes?. Of course this could cause quanta issues, so it would need rebalancing.

Having more deck ideas would be optimal, so we better start working.

[Aitvaras]

Thanks for taking the time to post these all here,

I agree with alot in your post and I think we need to focus our energie right now on improving our deck concepts. We must have some deck skeletons which we are all confident in before we can finish our vault.

[LongDono]

I feel the first one scramble shrikers should replace both maxwells with quanta pillers. They cost 5 quanta each PLUS their effect and they can be killed easy.
Dragon otk I have no clue. If a gen or Lt used it and upped the novas it could be solid as gold yo!
I like rainbow rush. Replace crawlers with freeze as a form of CC depending on if our foe is able to past our shields with some creatures or not.
Raise of the lycans only run 3 creatures. :/
The immo deck could work but I am  not sure.
the first air/death lacks CC. Unless we KNOW they wont play flying creatures alot then we should stay away from it.
Not sure about gravity poison. Against stall it is godly though.
Gravity earth seems balanced.
UW seems like it depends ont he foe but again it could be good with a few changes.
I like the entropy fire, it can counter some decks really good.
Dis field could use a panda or 3
All CC the mark could be entropy. Looks interesting, take 1 or 2 cards out for pillers maybe?
Denial is more than a river, I could see use playing this deck, however it can be countered. Must becareful.
GotP denail could use some CC maybe?
Both Graboid of the past decks look good.
Air death Lt/gen deck is uber powerful and WILL destroy some foes. All the cards in it can be used in rainbows easy, and other decks too. It can be used with no upgrades but the speed given with upgrades is insane.
Grav voodoo is interesting, never saw anything like it.
death fire is for those with limited CC. Yes bonewalls would be better than plague.

[Aitvaras]

gravvoodoo is a simple tweak from Its a Trap. One of my favorite pvp1 decks. I know the original destroys antagon graboid rainbow deck or simple rushes when played well, this version however does have some decreased reliability, but against most rushes I think this deck can destroy them

Im gonna go to work on converting proven decks to fit our rulesset.

[phaedrus]

Something I'm working on right now which could be cool if it works is building two duo decks which can be switched around from round to round. For example, dark/time and ent/fire decks which could be swapped into dark/ent and fire/time decks. If done right I think an idea like this has the potential to wreak some havoc if both sets of decks are good enough.

We have a lot of ideas, and this is a good thing. However, it is also important that we start to find legitimate reasons for NOT using certain decks. The longer we keep pilling deck ideas on top of each other the more difficult it is going to get to organize them and determine which are going to be able to win us matches.

At the moment I think we should consider scrapping the following decks: Rainbow rush (I think we could do a deck like this better), both the grav decks (agree with shiningsword here I think...even though I made them lol), diss field stall and all cc (because they wont win multiple rounds), one each of the earth/time and air/death  duos (testing and discussion required here).

We're up against the best in the game here folks so lets make sure that our decks are up to snuff.

Phaedrus.

[Neopergoss]

Wow, this is great, guys. Here are my thoughts:

Scrambled Shriekers: I wasn't sure about the EQs at first because there are only 3 of them and they need to come out early, but then I realized that with discord you get a little extra time for it to be effective. If the demons are taken out the deck won't have a use for that much entropy quanta, but including so many entropy pendulums is a good idea so you can get discords out sooner. So if we take them out, I'm not sure what the best replacement would be to use all that entropy quanta.

Dragon OTK: Looks good to me, without having tested it. I like that this deck uses upped cards as we will need a few like that. May be a good idea to make more like that. I'm honestly not so sure about the proposed changes by ShiningSword. I think testing would be in order. Yes, I agree with LongDono that upped novas would really help -- this may be best for the general to use since it would then have 6 upped cards.

Rainbow Rush: I for one actually like wings, particularly when you have some form of CC to use on flying creatures. There is CC and there is also web here. Not a bad idea replacing the crawlers with freezes but then I'm not sure how much of a speed drawback that would be. It's already got some CC and we won't always need it at all.

Rise of the Lycans: Igh, I really need another discord. Rise of the lycans having only 3 creatures does seem a bit unreliable. If you can get out a quinted lycan with mitosis you're gold, but it could be a tough combo to pull off. The saving grace is that there is a whole lot of denial here, so there's a good chance the opponent will have trouble getting their good stuff out, too.

Immo: Yes, maybe it needs testing. Quanta could be hard to come by as suggested, or it might actually work.

Air/Death: I like both of these except that I really dislike wyrms. I can see their use in this deck, though...maybe it's ok. Perhaps 3 spiders aren't enough, though and OE could be included in both. Maybe more than 1 even, possibly swapping extra arsenic for poison.

Grav/Poison: I don't know if I like how many cards depend on drawing eachother -- 3 deathstalkers and 3 momentums that are useless alone and 3 acceleration that are useless without an armagio. Could be very deadly with the right draws, though. It also looks like it has a bit too much gravity quanta.

Grav/Earth: I like this one better than the previous. I suspect a grav shield would go well with the otyughs, and a weapon would probably be a good idea, too. Titan is a good weapon, and so is pulverizer. The plates will also benefit from the grav shield as we can plate enemy units to get them over 5hp if eating them isn't a viable option (for example they might have too much CC for Otyughs).

UW poison: Seems a little entropy heavy with the maxwells, though I like the idea of combining them with fire shields. If the discord comes out early enough perhaps that won't matter, but that is not guaranteed. I'd have to see this one in action. It definitely has potential.
The proposed changes would make this a totally different deck. I would have to see it, but I do like cheaper fog shields combined with dropping demon & buckler. CC for PC would then probably become more necessary, but I don't know if I would scrap this deck in the first place.

Entropy/Fire: I like it, but why no fire shield? Very good combo with maxwell, and there is no shield included at all.

Diss field: Nice stall, maybe throw in some sanctuaries (and/or SoG for upped), possibly in exchange for purify. Yes, panda is another good suggestion, but we don't want to throw in too much entropy. I think if we had these we'd have to think about taking out at least one antimatter -- this would probably be a good change.

All CC: Kind of a misnomer. Not sure if the 2 EQs and 2 blackholes are enough denial to be worth including. Otherwise it could be a good deckout deck if we know what to expect. Maybe enchant artifact would be good for the eternity. I think, ShiningSword, you missed the part about rewinding the photon. For this reason, you don't have to worry about decking out yourself (unless they have PC for the eternity, which is why I suggest enchant artifact).

Denial: Oooo...looks fun. Must not use against a stall, though, unless maybe we add some nightfall or eclipse or something.

GotP Denial: Looks pretty good. That's a lot of quint but I guess there are several good targets. I'm not sure about including CC -- what would you replace? I think it's pretty good as is.

Graboid/GotP (purple): Looks good, but I wonder if it would benefit from including weapons or shields.

Graboid/GotP (original): I guess we can test both. I think will accumulate too much time quanta but it might be useful getting GotP out sooner. I suspect that the other one is better.

Trap Bow: I agree with ShiningSword. Surprised you've never seen this, LongDono -- it can be quite fearsome. Something else like this I face recently employed PU pretty effectively. Apparently when you PU a voodoo doll its damage goes to the opponent again. I lost to this once, and this was its sole source of damage. I would've played differently if I'd known how PUing voodoo dolls worked, though.

Death/Fire: Not so sure about this one. I think it could do pretty well against a rush with no CC, so maybe we could use it if we are expecting that (I see I was ninja'd on this). Plague's advantage is that it is cheap mass CC. I think including bonewall would require reworking the deck in bigger ways.

I think this is a great starting point for our decks. I think a simple duo with a large numbers of creatures could be useful. In general, I think we should look carefully at other people's vaults to come up with specific decks for certain elements (especially the ones with smaller vaults) that they are unlikely to be able to counter. I'm not sure how soon we enter the War -- we should probably start looking at those vaults for those of us who haven't already.

Interesting idea about pairs of duo decks, phaedrus. Would like to see. Yes, there are lots of decks and we will have to start pruning them before long, although the first thing is to brainstorm. I don't think we have a very big oversupply yet, though -- many of these cards are shared between decks. The ones that we see in a lot of different deck ideas we like are the ones most important to have many copies of.

[Sevs]

Thought i should point out, you forgot ak65's deck on the confirmed decks tab.

@phaedrus, good idea. plus we can always rebuild them in later rounds if we come to need them

As for scrambled shriekers, through some testing i found that the maxwell demons helped a lot with immorushes, while the earth pillar, etropy mark is more reliable and can get faster EQ's, it is a matter of opponent

As for the Trap deck, against any rush without rewind, it is pretty brutal. it looks and feels like scrambled shriekers, until towards the end a voodoo pops up and turns the tide of the game. I would be all for it. even if you might think it is too predictable, the counter i think is pretty risky.

As for the straight up denial deck, it have no other damage than discords, which is not reliable at all. which is why the ak deck is better suited.

[Aitvaras]

Please add these to the OP. (As noticed by Sevs)

by Aitvaras

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This version was run by general Ak65 by the old UW team. There was also a veriation with -Toadfish -Pillar + Black Hole. I liked this version more, it seems more reliable to me.

by Aitvaras

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This version was run by the Lieutanent. It can easily be changed to a more rushy version with something like this:
- 2 EQ - Rewind - FFQ
+ 2 Graboid + 1 Blessing + 1 Wyrm

[Neopergoss]

Thought i should point out, you forgot ak65's deck on the confirmed decks tab.

@phaedrus, good idea. plus we can always rebuild them in later rounds if we come to need them

As for scrambled shriekers, through some testing i found that the maxwell demons helped a lot with immorushes, while the earth pillar, etropy mark is more reliable and can get faster EQ's, it is a matter of opponent

As for the Trap deck, against any rush without rewind, it is pretty brutal. it looks and feels like scrambled shriekers, until towards the end a voodoo pops up and turns the tide of the game. I would be all for it. even if you might think it is too predictable, the counter i think is pretty risky.

As for the straight up denial deck, it have no other damage than discords, which is not reliable at all. which is why the ak deck is better suited.

Yes, I agree -- the trap deck is solid. I think the denial deck is intended for deckout? But maybe you're right -- if they get just a couple of shriekers out, for example, you basically can't win. It may need a little work. Would like to see this AK deck.
edit: OK, not as similar as I would've expected, but I agree that this would be a good replacement.

[Aitvaras]

its 1 post up from yours

[LifeLockable]

I like the looks of alot of them...but for more not so much...like diss feild deck does no damage and if you opponent has more cards then you you are screwed...maybe add like a lava golam momentum quintessince combo? make the monster invulnerable to EVERYTHING and it gets stronger every turn...maybe add some enchants to bea deflag and EQ...cant put sanc in there because it would fail so hard


I like denail but I think aether mark would be better so we can use fractal faster

going to look later for more possible flaws if any this is just what I though at first glance

[phaedrus]

I've made some improvements to the immolation deck. Have switched BBs to eqs and balanced the quanta for that change. I like it a lot better this way.

by phaedrus

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