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Should Joe Paterno have been fired? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33539.msg423073#msg423073
« on: November 10, 2011, 03:45:24 am »
Topic title says it all.  In the wake of the scandal at Penn State should Joe Paterno have been fired or allowed to finish the season out.

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Re: Should Joe Paterno have been fired? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33539.msg423075#msg423075
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2011, 03:50:17 am »
Yes, without question.

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Re: Should Joe Paterno have been fired? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33539.msg423080#msg423080
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2011, 03:55:51 am »
As I was saying in chat - certainly not. He had no moral or legal obligation to go beyond what he did - why should he have reported his friend that he knew for 40 years to the police based on nothing but hearsay? If anything, he has a moral AND legal obligation to NOT go beyond what he did - it's defamation.

People seem to have a natural tendency to immediately judge people because they percieve them as "better" than them - it's jealousy, and it's rampant. Celebrities are judged much more harshly just because they are celebrities, with the ironic argument that they will receive "no celebrity treatment".
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Re: Should Joe Paterno have been fired? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33539.msg423085#msg423085
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2011, 04:03:17 am »
As I was saying in chat - certainly not. He had no moral or legal obligation to go beyond what he did - why should he have reported his friend that he knew for 40 years to the police based on nothing but hearsay? If anything, he has a moral AND legal obligation to NOT go beyond what he did - it's defamation.
I completely disagree with all of this. I would have to research if there is a legal obligation, but there is definitely a moral obligation to report it. It wasn't hearsay, it was an eyewitness report. And he had a professional obligation to report it because he is the boss, so to speak, and it happened at his workplace. It would have been defamation to leak it to the press without investigating, but it definitely isn't to simply investigate further. A claim like this is too serious to ignore, I don't care what kind of relationship you have with the accused.

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Re: Should Joe Paterno have been fired? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33539.msg423205#msg423205
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2011, 10:45:11 am »
From what I have heard there was an actual witness. And he reported it to the higher ups. It was then the administration that decided to not go public about it.

I am sort of torn about whether or not he should have been fired but their reasoning (or at least their choice of words) is pretty ridiculous
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Offline bogtro

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Re: Should Joe Paterno have been fired? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33539.msg423334#msg423334
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2011, 06:37:27 pm »
As I was saying in chat - certainly not. He had no moral or legal obligation to go beyond what he did - why should he have reported his friend that he knew for 40 years to the police based on nothing but hearsay? If anything, he has a moral AND legal obligation to NOT go beyond what he did - it's defamation.
I completely disagree with all of this. I would have to research if there is a legal obligation, but there is definitely a moral obligation to report it. It wasn't hearsay, it was an eyewitness report. And he had a professional obligation to report it because he is the boss, so to speak, and it happened at his workplace. It would have been defamation to leak it to the press without investigating, but it definitely isn't to simply investigate further. A claim like this is too serious to ignore, I don't care what kind of relationship you have with the accused.
This completely ignores the fact that he did report it. In any event, if I told you right now that I saw someone sexually abusing a child, would you be obligated to report it? You have no way of knowing whether or not it is true (and it likely isn't).

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Re: Should Joe Paterno have been fired? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33539.msg423338#msg423338
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2011, 06:46:36 pm »
In any event, if I told you right now that I saw someone sexually abusing a child, would you be obligated to report it? You have no way of knowing whether or not it is true (and it likely isn't).
If I were your boss and you told me it happened on premise at our workplace, then yes, I would be obligated to report it.

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Re: Should Joe Paterno have been fired? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33539.msg423341#msg423341
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2011, 06:53:15 pm »
This completely ignores the fact that he did report it. In any event, if I told you right now that I saw someone sexually abusing a child, would you be obligated to report it? You have no way of knowing whether or not it is true (and it likely isn't).
You're damn skippy I'm morally obligated to report it.  Perhaps this is something that hits closer to me due to the fact that I have children of my own, but the fact remains that the moral obligation is there. 

Now, consider that this is my reaction, that of a private citizen who has no bearing on anyone or anything other than those that come in direct contact with me.  Joe Paterno is a man whose entire legacy is based on the idea that honor breeds success, and vice versa.  To say that he is exempt from being morally obligated to do more than he did is invalidating everything he stands for.  And yes, I understand that there are mitigating circumstances surrounding this case (seriously strange stuff re: DA investigating the case (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html?_r=1)), but the fact remains that Joe Paterno failed to live up to the standards that he set and as such, should have been summarily dismissed, just as he was.
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Re: Should Joe Paterno have been fired? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33539.msg423450#msg423450
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2011, 11:54:43 pm »
What the point is that is he did his job. The fact that the university imposed sanctions implies that Paterno did his job by reporting it. It is not his place to do more because he doesn't agree with the verdict, in the same way that I'm not morally obligated to go kill Casey Anthony or something because I don't feel enough was done. It is not his responsibility to do anything about a coach just because some assistant, who may or not be credible and may have any number of reasons for complaining told me so. Besides this, I have no authority to do so if the person isn't even under my control.

@UTAlan: What you seem to be ignoring is that he reported it to his boss and told him it happened on premises at their workplace.



Nobody denies that a serious injustice was done, but what the hell does this have to do with Paterno? The answer is simple: it's political, just like everything else. If a cop shot someone and there was a public outrage over it, is doesn't really matter whether or not the shooting was justified - the cop is fired the next day, just to avoid a public scandal. Exactly what's happening here.

I feel that Paterno was unfairly dismissed, and would have every right to sue for both his job and defamation. It's simply not right to essentially end a man's life over something that has been ridiculously blown up by the media. Paterno was just the person to take the fall for other people's mistakes, nothing else.
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Re: Should Joe Paterno have been fired? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33539.msg423473#msg423473
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2011, 12:55:44 am »
wasnt he the one who reported it? or was he the one that was doing the molestation? i cant remember...
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Re: Should Joe Paterno have been fired? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33539.msg426904#msg426904
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2011, 11:49:38 pm »
Most definitely. To put it simply, if you know of a possible incident of child rape, from an eyewitness, and do not go to the police, you are completely wrong. Furthermore, if the person in question is employed under you and you do not fire him or reprimand him other than telling him to stop, you are completely wrong.

Joe Paterno was completely wrong. He wasn't fired for legal issues, yes, but the scandal would have affected him so negatively he probably would not have been an effective coach, and I'd say the moral issues are enough to fire him anyway.

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Re: Should Joe Paterno have been fired? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33539.msg1051367#msg1051367
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2013, 04:06:37 am »
It was reported that higher administration knew about the problem. As far as ethics go, moral obligation deems Paterno out of responsibility (pm me if you disagree, this is a sports thread). Also, Paterno's punishment came very quickly. For a guy who's been there as long as he has and the reputation he has built, consequences for what may/may not have been his fault came too quickly which is why the NCAA is currently under investigation. The only basis for him being fired was failing to report a sexual abuse happening, if that was the case. This evidence is too small and regardless of how big the matter is, there needed more evidence to fire him.

Think of it like this: My boss knows this employee is stealing from his company. I didn't report it, but he knows. I don't have to go and tell him.

Also, notice it wasn't the school that actually got Paterno fired...it was the NCAA's ruling that actually caused this...interesting
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