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Offline moomoose

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Re: Series: Elementals! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47588.msg1049898#msg1049898
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2013, 12:25:10 am »
1. Wow, that's not helping and even insulting! I know you're active in this forum and in here a long time but why does that allow you to post comments in threads without any useful comment, simply flaming the author? Next time you'll answer one of my threads make sure you're polite to a certain extent and have something useful to say. Issues belonging the series system do NOT belong into a serier thread.

-your postings were the prime example of what i hated, so i posted here.  it got the response i was after and you were alerted to the issue as well, as to prevent future spamfests. 

2. However, thanks to inform me about the elemental naming issue, i will take care of that.

-yep.
moose dont say moo.

Offline ZephyrPhantom

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Re: Series: Elementals! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47588.msg1049901#msg1049901
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2013, 01:26:34 am »
Quote
2. (Regarding monopolizing the first page) I knew thats a problem, but i used the guide and it said that each card will be added, so how could i avoid that? I'm sorry it didn't ment it that way but that's how i understood the card idea system.
While it's technically allowed, it's also considered impolite to 'flood' the first page with your ideas since it pushes everyone else's to the second page and looks like spam.  When posting a series, try to post 2-3 ideas at a time instead of all 12 ideas at once.

Offline Dm

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Re: Series: Elementals! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47588.msg1049970#msg1049970
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2013, 08:40:08 am »
I hate to barge into your guys' conversation, but let's think straight, shall we? There ain't no reason to hate. He just read the guide. After telling him the first time ain't no reason to continue, and we can focus on the more important part right here.

... You know, the Cards.

Back to our replying game~

:fire - Oh, now I understood. Let's say that Offensive would mean "Raise att". Now, on that sense, the elemental would easily overthrow the nymph, as Fire already has a lot of Creature Control (FireBolt, Rain of Fire, Rage Potion itself); a pair of so many elementals in Fire could also work as a CC such as a Nymph would, although less effectively. It is also Cheaper AND a "Common" card (as in, you can buy it in bazaar, while nymph is Ultra-Rare; Tournaments or Oracle). Those are my troubles with it, because I feel like it's just a "cheap" alternative to a nymph, although with a more offensive proportion and I admit the mechanics are a tad bit different.

Also, this + Lava Golem was just a random idea that popped into my mind. I must admit I lol'd.

:gravity - Well, if you follow that logic, when you're targeted by reverse time on a creature that had a buff used on it previously, you are losing :

1- The cost of the creature card;
2- The cost of the buff card;
3- The buff card (in this case Blessing)
4- The creature card (Say, Vampire)
5- One turn (You play and bless the vamp in one turn)

But, Blessing would only be 3 (or 2) Light, and Vampire would be (? I forgot. Let's say 3.)
So in total, you paid (and lost) 2 cards and 6 Quanta, which you can easily regain.

But for whatever reason you are using a gravity elemental. And you're also targeted by reverse time. The logic that would follow is, you are losing:

1- The cost of the creature card
2- The cost of the elemental card
3- The cost of the activation of the Elemental Card's ability
4- The creature card itself or
4b - The Elemental itself, or
4c - Both.
5-  Two turns (The Elemental cannot use his ability the same turn he is cast. You lost two turns and will have to wait another after you play the Elemental again to buff the Vampire.)

Assuming only the gravity elemental is reversed, you will have lost: 6 Gravity quanta (The single card already adds up more than the whole loss of the previous explanation), and another single Gravity quanta for having to pay for the activation cost. You have, however, a 4/5 Vampire. Plus the very own card that was returned. You also lost two turns (The Elemental has a summoning sickness like all other cards, which means he had to wait one turn before buffing the vampire; and will have to wait one turn after he is played again to buff the Vampire again. It is also not unlikely that he may be Reversed/Rewinded the turn he is played, in which case you lose one turn and the vampire is left with it's original 2/3 state.)

Assuming only the Vampire is reversed (highly unlikely; the logic is always to try to stop the most problematic card, the Elemental), you will lose the Card, the buff that you had received (You will have to pay for the activation cost again), adding up for a measly 3 darkness quanta, 1 Gravity quanta; but you also lost the buff, which means the scenario will repeat.

However. When you are fighting an opponent that has Reverse Time, it is not unlikely for him to have more than a single Rewind/Reverse Time, because it's a good CC. It may even have eternity.

IN WHICH CASE..

Assuming both are reversed (likely), you will lose Six Gravity quanta from the Elemental Cost; 1 Gravity Quanta from the ability cost; 2 darkness from the vampire, and will have to wait yet another two turns (Due to the summoning sickness) to be able to boost the Vampire again. With the ability, if you used it, you lost 9 Quanta total -- Without the ability, you would lose 8 quanta total. And the two turns, I think I should add again.

Hope you followed all that through, it may seem confusing; but I'm really just adding up what you pay and what you lose assuming Reverse Time, which you said you disliked. Blessing would be more useful in this situation.

:entropy -- Photons, in a Entropy Shield deck, are fitting in spaces that could be used to fit in Entropy Pillars; which means that every photon you add, you are losing one potential entropy quanta. Which means when you play all of them, you have already lost Six potential entropy pillars, that could have been played and add straight to your quanta pool.

Not only that, but when you are using the photons in the entropy shield deck, you would have to wait to draw and play the Entropy Elemental; turns wasted may go and go until you find the elemental, while if these Photons were simple Entropy Pillars it would go straight to your quanta pool without any wait. To have high chances of finding the Elemental, you would need six of them (Entropy Shield decks are usually large and stallish), which means you just lost another six potential entropy pillar slots.

Further on, even if you find all six photons AND an Elemental in time and at the same time, you could have played the entropy pillars (Seven of them) adding up for seven entropy quanta in that turn, while if you play the Photons and Elemental, you win/lose no quanta for that turn (Read: You will pay six quanta for the Elemental, and have Six Photons, which means you will generate six entropy and lose nothing). Just by that, we can see the Seven Entropy Pillar slots that the Elemental + Photons are occupying would be more profitable already in the first turn.

Now, let's continue the game. Our seven pillars will generate another seven entropy quanta, adding up for a sum of 14 entropy quanta.
Our photons and elemental will generate a simple Six entropy quanta, and we will have generated only Six Entropy quanta so far (The first turn generated no quanta for us.)

Plus, let us not forget that the Photons (AND the elemental) can be CC'd. Let us assume rain of fire was cast, you just lost all 7 of the cards you have played and literally won nothing or will win no longer. That's the worst case scenario.
Best case scenario, FireBolt or some other cheap CC would be used in the Elemental itself, causing the Elemental to die and as such not generate any more entropy quanta -- You won nothing and won't win anything.

While the worst case scenario, EQ'd pillars will make us lose 3 pillars, although we have already generated 7 from the casting turn; and will continue to generate 4 every turn after.
In the best case scenario, a Deflagged or stolen pillar will make us lose 1 pillar only. We have already generated 7 and will continue to generate 6 every turn after.

In all the scenarios, the Pillars are more profitable than changing in a photon and elemental. Please be reminded that I was also thoughtful enough and gave you the best possible scenario from the start -- Six photons and one Elemental. If there are less than Six photons, the maximum you can have in your deck, you will actually LOSE Quanta for casting the Elemental (Five photons, the Elemental costs Six -- You just lost one quanta); and then will continue to generate even less than the same amount of pillars as has been proved above. That assuming it is not CC'd one turn after it was cast, a scenario I have already covered.

Sorry I was long.


Offline reshiucSTopic starter

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Re: Series: Elementals! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47588.msg1052891#msg1052891
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2013, 11:35:53 am »
:fire : maybe it's not going to be a common card. I dont know, maybe you're right but i'll keep this card for now.
:gravity : Regarding blessing scenario, i'm not sure what you mean by loosing the creature's card. It's back in your hand and that's one big point to me. The Blessing card itself is gone after reverse and you'll never get that back. The elemental can be summoned again and it can use its ability multiple times and blessing can't. The quanta loss may be higher but you're not loosing any cards. Yes, it may be fragile to reverse time but so is any unit which has any kind of "growth" ability (and those can only buff themselves). The logic behind this card is to create a danger (like those growth cards) for the opponent, either he has to nullify this elemental or has to deal with a strong creature eventually. Of course it pretty much useless against eternity but many cards are and there's still the shard.
:entropy : You're math is right but you forgot to utilize you're using creatures which can be utilized (not only they are dealing damage which pillars do not; in your scenario they're dealing 8 damage each turn and that usually costs 8 quanta). By your logic there will be no point of using photons/gem finders at all because a pillar creates one more quantum. That's not true, those units can be utilized by some cards (shard of patience or whatever) and that's why the entropy elemental can be used. Of course in order to produce quanta pillars will be your first choice but in case your strategy already includes alot of cheap units this elemental will grant a big boost to your economy. I'm pretty sure there are scenarios which make this elemental stronger than your best case scenario. I even thought it was to strong that's why i gave it 2/2 stats but i may increse that.
Tell me your opinion!

 

blarg: