Monolith/Obelisk series

[Manipul8r]

My first thought when reading this was that these are strictly better than pillars in almost all cases.  This means they would be necessary to grind for even basic PvP, and even for AI3+ grinding if the AI were using them prevalently.  That's quite a barrier to add to the game in my opinion.

My next thought was, what kind of ability can be given to something that is, at its basic form, free and generates quanta?  It takes a lot to achieve what a Death Monolith does - a vulnerable 2 creature must stay alive one turn, then you must spend one to add the poison.  The only advantage is that it's reusable, but you're probably going to be running multiple Death Monoliths.

My third thought was to have them be situational, so that they won't be a 'must-have' card.  However, this would probably result in a few of them being extremely popular while others become next to useless.

So I finally came to this conclusion: they could have a passive ability, called Legendary - you can only have one of it on your side of the field at any time.  If you play another, it dies at EoT (the CiP effect would still work, I suppose).  They could alternatively have their own slot, much like the Weapon/Shield slots.  This would let them be reasonably powerful, while not being necessary.  I also thought it might be better to have them be stronger late game, as drawing a pillar later is often useless.

I like the overall idea, it's a good way to show the specialty of each element.  Now that I've spewed my thoughts, here are some ideas.  The values within can be modified, they are just basic ideas.

: You become immaterial for two turns.
: Deal 1 damage to target, plus 1 if it is not airborne.
: Target creature gains Dive for one turn.
: Gain 1 life, plus 1 for each creature on your field in the top and bottom rows.
: Gain 1 life, plus one for each creature that died last turn.
: Target creature gains +0|+2 for two turns.
: Target permanent becomes immaterial for two turns.
: Move 2 random quanta of the opponent to other types of quanta.
: Target creature becomes a random, different creature for one turn.
: Target creature gains +2|0 for one turn.
: Target creature gains Momentum for one turn.
: Target creature gains +2|-1 for two turns.
: Target creature gains +1|+1 for two turns.
: Target creature with ATK less than 5 attacks twice this turn.
: Gain 1 life, plus 1 for every 2 bioluminescent creatures you control.
: Heal target creature for 5 HP.
: Target creature is resummoned.
: Return 1 pillar from target stack to its controller's hand.
: Destroy one empty middle row creature slot for 3 turns.
: Gain 1 quantum of the target pillar's element.

[ralouf]

: You become immaterial for two turns. if its like Dimensionnal shield its OP; if its just that you can be targeted it's not bad idea
: Deal 1 damage to target, plus 1 if it is not airborne. really good idea
: Target creature gains Dive for one turn. not bad too much choose one
: Gain 1 life, plus 1 for each creature on your field in the top and bottom rows. it can be a very good heal but not for early game though
: Gain 1 life, plus one for each creature that died last turn. really like it
: Target creature gains +0|+2 for two turns. seems not bad but redundant
: Target permanent becomes immaterial for two turns.idem
: Move 2 random quanta of the opponent to other types of quanta.2 is not enough i think and redundant with discord
: Target creature becomes a random, different creature for one turn. why for only one turn ? little redundant with mutation
: Target creature gains +2|0 for one turn. soon created and its +1|+0 for ever
: Target creature gains Momentum for one turn. redundant
: Target creature gains +2|-1 for two turns. idem
: Target creature gains +1|+1 for two turns. not bad idea
: Target creature with ATK less than 5 attacks twice this turn. really like this idea
: Gain 1 life, plus 1 for every 2 bioluminescent creatures you control. Good idea
: Heal target creature for 5 HP. not fan
: Target creature is resummoned. what this mean exactly ?
: Return 1 pillar from target stack to its controller's hand. This is totally useless
: Destroy one empty middle row creature slot for 3 turns. You mean destroy=flood ? I like the idea
: Gain 1 quantum of the target pillar's element. not bad but We can find better idea I think

[Manipul8r]

Glad you like some of them.  I guess I should have explained a couple with new keywords.

Resummoned means that it is essentially recast - in game, it would be like returning it to their hand, then immediately recasting it for free.  It would remove any negative/positive buffs and any abilities given to it (such as by Liquid Shadow).

Destroying a creature slot means nothing can be played in it.  It would be a minor buff to Flooding (as would the Darkness idea).

You becoming Immaterial means you can not be the target of any spells, yes.  You can still take damage from creatures.

Since both Entropy seemed a bit redundant, here is another one:

: Shuffle one card from target players hand into their deck.  That player draws a new card.

Not sure where this one would fit in, it's good for rushing though (archetypal suicide rush deck):
?: Your opponent loses 5 life and you lose 3 life.

Oh yeah, what do you mean by "idem"?

[ralouf]

Glad to have your help
Resummoned is good I like the capacity.
So destroying a slot just mean that your opponent can now play up to 22 creature instead of 23 ?
Immaterial is not a bad idea but little weak I think.
Otherwise I really like the entropy idea !!!!! Very nice

Idem meant similar to the previous comment ^^

[Manipul8r]

Oh and the returning the pillar to the player's hand can create some interesting combos with the other CiP Monoliths, that's what it's for.  Return a Fire Monolith, get +2|+0 out of it instead of +1|+0 out of it.  Don't like the card you got with the Entropy reshuffle?  Try again!

Unfortunately I'm not so good with Earth and Gravity, I'm told my head is always in the clouds.

I guess destroying a slot is not very good except with Flooding, perhaps it should destroy up to 4 empty slots in the middle row, and move creatures out of those slots if there is no empty space left in the middle row (if their field is full, does nothing).  Or, like you said, it could 'Flood' a random middle slot, killing a creature if there is one in it.

[ninjamaster1991]

um..
 : target creature gains teh ability 'fire'.

[OldTrees]

My first thought when reading this was that these are strictly better than pillars in almost all cases.  This means they would be necessary to grind for even basic PvP, and even for AI3+ grinding if the AI were using them prevalently.  That's quite a barrier to add to the game in my opinion.

My next thought was, what kind of ability can be given to something that is, at its basic form, free and generates quanta?  It takes a lot to achieve what a Death Monolith does - a vulnerable 2 creature must stay alive one turn, then you must spend one to add the poison.  The only advantage is that it's reusable, but you're probably going to be running multiple Death Monoliths.

My third thought was to have them be situational, so that they won't be a 'must-have' card.  However, this would probably result in a few of them being extremely popular while others become next to useless.

So I finally came to this conclusion: they could have a passive ability, called Legendary - you can only have one of it on your side of the field at any time.  If you play another, it dies at EoT (the CiP effect would still work, I suppose).  They could alternatively have their own slot, much like the Weapon/Shield slots.  This would let them be reasonably powerful, while not being necessary.  I also thought it might be better to have them be stronger late game, as drawing a pillar later is often useless.

I like the overall idea, it's a good way to show the specialty of each element.  Now that I've spewed my thoughts, here are some ideas.  The values within can be modified, they are just basic ideas.

: You become immaterial for two turns.A turn of Phase shield or permanent untargetability is too powerful. Short term untargetability could work but might be outdone by mirror shield
: Deal 1 damage to target, plus 1 if it is not airborne.I like this idea. It adds value to Airborne. Definately would have to be a monolith
: Target creature gains Dive for one turn.Perhaps. As you noted with your life idea below an extra attack is powerful on high attack creatures. Perhaps too powerful for a non legendary monolith
: Gain 1 life, plus 1 for each creature on your field in the top and bottom rows.I do not see how this fits darkness. Could you enlighten me? It seems a bit situational and close to Empathetic Bond.
: Gain 1 life, plus one for each creature that died last turn.Would need to be an obelisk to be better able to track deaths. Sounds like a neat idea
: Target creature gains +0|+2 for two turns.I do not want to copy Heavy Armor and I fear that this would be too useful as a repeated effect with Devouring creatures.
: Target permanent becomes immaterial for two turns.Burrowed for 1 turn?
: Move 2 random quanta of the opponent to other types of quanta.I would prefer not to copy Discord
: Target creature becomes a random, different creature for one turn.A 1 turn mutation?
: Target creature gains +2|0 for one turn.Would a 1 turn bonus or a smaller permanent bonus be better? Currently Fire Monolith gives a permanent +1|0
: Target creature gains Momentum for one turn.I do not want to copy momentum
: Target creature gains +2|-1 for two turns.did you mean +2|-1 then +4|-2 then +0|0?
: Target creature gains +1|+1 for two turns.did you mean +1|1 then +2|2 then +0|0?
: Target creature with ATK less than 5 attacks twice this turn.I would prefer not to copy adrenaline. However this is different enough that it could work.
: Gain 1 life, plus 1 for every 2 bioluminescent creatures you control.Perhaps
: Heal target creature for 5 HP.I do not want to copy Angel
: Target creature is resummoned.Good idea
: Return 1 pillar from target stack to its controller's hand.Due to the 0 casting cost of pillars this would only be useful to return one of your towers to regain 1quanta.
: Destroy one empty middle row creature slot for 3 turns.Destroying a creature is a bit powerful for monolith even if made Legendary
: Gain 1 quantum of the target pillar's element.Currently the same idea is ascribed to light but if Light gets a better idea then you are right that it would be a good option for an Other Obelisk

Thank you for your huge list.

However Monoliths and Obelisks are not strictly better than Pillars because they are a full turn or more slower and cost quanta to play.
Unupped Monoliths cost 1 quanta  +quanta lost from being played on the 2nd turn.
Upgraded Monoliths cost 0 quanta but do not provide instant quanta like towers hence slowing the other cards down by a turn.
Unupped Obelisks cost 2 quanta +1quanta per activation +quanta lost from being played on the 2nd or 3rd turn.
Upgraged Obelisks cost 1 quanta +1quanta per activation +quanta lost from being played on the 2nd turn and do not provide instant quanta like towers hence slowing the other cards down by a turn.
The difference is the difference between a Forest(Pillar),Khalni Garden(Monolith) and Oran Rief The Vastwood(Obelisk) [Forest is generally superior to both non basic lands mentioned]
Another slight difference is that Monoliths are not restricted to a max of 6 copies while Obelisks cap at 6 copies.

[Manipul8r]

Okay, I see they aren't strictly better.  They're still difficult to balance, though.  It will be tough to gauge unless they are actually tested in game.

The Dive could make the dive cost vary depending on the creature's cost.

At first I wrote the one as Dealing 1 damage to opponent and healing 1, plus one for each creature you have in the top and bottom rows.  I must have removed the vamp and forgotten that it was the thematic part.

I meant a static bonus, not compounding bonus, although compounding could be interesting as well.

The double attack could say 'attacks one extra time' and stack with Adrenaline.

I meant to write that the one that returns a Pillar can return Monoliths as well, so it can bounce back some other CiP Monolith for you to reuse.

[OldTrees]

Okay, I see they aren't strictly better.  They're still difficult to balance, though.  It will be tough to gauge unless they are actually tested in game.

The Dive could make the dive cost vary depending on the creature's cost.

At first I wrote the one as Dealing 1 damage to opponent and healing 1, plus one for each creature you have in the top and bottom rows.  I must have removed the vamp and forgotten that it was the thematic part.

I meant a static bonus, not compounding bonus, although compounding could be interesting as well.

The double attack could say 'attacks one extra time' and stack with Adrenaline.

I meant to write that the one that returns a Pillar can return Monoliths as well, so it can bounce back some other CiP Monolith for you to reuse.

Good point. Adding dive as a temporary activated skill means there would be another balancing variable to manipulate. Would this fit a Monolith or an Obelisk better?

Originally the Darkness obelisk was deal 1, heal 1. It was changed later to remove the redundancy with vampire and drain life.

A temporary bonus seems like a simple enough idea. Assuming a permanent +1|0 is balanced for a monolith what would an equivalent value temporary bonus be? +3|0 for 1 turn? +2|0 with 1 attack decay per turn? something else?
A temporary attack bonus feels like Fire to me. If the Fire Obelisk were given a temporary stat bonus as its skill what should it be?

I think the life idea is a good one. However based upon your other ideas I expect you will soon have a better one for Life.

Now the Time one sounds much better creating some in series synergy. Would it work better as a Monolith or an Obelisk in your opinion? I think Obelisk but I want your opinion.

  You become untargetable for 2 turns
  Deal 2 damage to target creature (1 if airborne)
Perhaps:  Obelisk  : Target creature gains Dive [activation cost dependent on creature casting cost]
  Obelisk  : Heal 1hp per creature that died this turn.
Temporary stat bonus
  Target creature is resummoned
  Obelisk?  : Return target pillar/pendulum/monolith to owners hand [not usable if hand is full]
? (fire probably) Your opponent loses Xhp. You lose Yhp.
  Obelisk or Monolith? Draw a new hand.

[ninjamaster1991]

Fire should be summin like 'target creature has a (33%) chance to gain +4|0 each turn, but loses 1|0 each turn.

[OldTrees]

Fire should be summin like 'target creature has a (33%) chance to gain +4|0 each turn, but loses 1|0 each turn.

That is too similar to Steam.

[ninjamaster1991]

True. Maybe damage target creature for 1 damage unless they're  or