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Elements the Game => Exhibition Hall => Card Ideas and Art => Series => Topic started by: AngeDeMort on April 28, 2011, 03:57:10 am

Title: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: AngeDeMort on April 28, 2011, 03:57:10 am

While thinking to myself "What does ETG not have/possibly need?" I came to the conclusion of trap cards, and began working on my own after digging around with the search and viewing some of the ones I found. I personally like the idea of traps in ETG but I don't know how the community feels, either way here are the ideas

Mechanics:
All are played cloaked (square looks like cloak symbol)
All have to be triggered by a certain event to activate
All are destroyed upon being triggered
Only one can be set off per trigger

:aetherbig	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd178471/Portal.png) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25250.0.html)
:airbig	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd182354/Crash_Landing.png) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25882.new.html)
:darknessbig	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd186039/Blackout.png) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25668.new.html)
:deathbig	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd180489/Good_Intentions.png) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25623.new.html)
:earthbig	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd179850/Quicksand.png) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25496.new.html)
:entropybig	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd179333/Confuse.png) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25447.0.html)
:firebig	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd184910/Caldera.png) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,26313.new.html)
:gravitybig	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd179010/Shrink.png) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25400.0.html)
:lifebig	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd181769/Absorb.png) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25808.new.html)
:lightbig	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd179325/Flash.png) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25441.0.html)
:timebig	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd183397/Flash_Back.png) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,26124.new.html)
:waterbig	(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd185339/Runoff.png) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,26385.new.html)

:water - Flash Flood: next enemy creature played causes 3 random spots on their field to flood (cost  :water to maintain after activated)
:fire - Anger: next enemy creature played gives one of yours +3|+0

comments, suggestions for better effects, and random outbursts of opinions are all welcome

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: OldTrees on April 28, 2011, 05:18:01 am

Facedown is hard to do because cards are revealed when played.

 :aether  :o Really powerful. Perhaps too much?
 :air A bit situational but might work.
 :darkness In addition to the normal effect? How long?
 :death Interesting. There are only 4 healing "spells". Probably worth converting to respond to any healing.
 :earth A 2 turn delay would be useful occasionally. Nice with Pulverizer or Earthquake
 :entropy Define random.
 :fire Why have this as a trap? It would work better as Blessing
 :gravity Interesting. Round remaining hp up or down?
 :life Probably not. It would shut all bolt decks down. Not even Reflective Mirror does that.
 :light Fits
 :time Perhaps
 :water Probably not. It would seem to be too random and uncertain to plan around. (and a low slot Flooding tile would be too Powerful)

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: Manipul8r on April 28, 2011, 06:15:10 am

What I really dislike about this is that your opponent will see what quanta you used to play it, and if they know what that element's trap does, they'll know what will happen.  This rewards players for paying attention closely when it's not their turn and for memorizing cards, which is bad for new players in particular.

But it's possible these ideas could be used differently, so I'll do some OT style critiquing.

 :aether Could be balanced if it had some restriction, like 'creature with ATK<X (or HP<X, or quanta cost<X, etc).'
 :air Why would air screw over something airborne?  Maybe good for another element.
 :darkness Seems redundant to me, why not just play Cloak?
 :entropy Does the original skill still take effect?
 :fire Same question as with the darkness one and what OT said.
 :gravity Round up IMO.  But it seems pretty weak, especially in Gravity.  I think it would be better if it also halved ATK.
 :time For your opponent?  Wouldn't that often be helpful to him?

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: AngeDeMort on April 28, 2011, 03:58:59 pm

Quote from: OldTrees on April 28, 2011, 05:18:01 am

Facedown is hard to do because cards are revealed when played.

 :aether  :o Really powerful. Perhaps too much?
 :air A bit situational but might work.
 :darkness In addition to the normal effect? How long?
 :death Interesting. There are only 4 healing "spells". Probably worth converting to respond to any healing.
 :earth A 2 turn delay would be useful occasionally. Nice with Pulverizer or Earthquake
 :entropy Define random.
 :fire Why have this as a trap? It would work better as Blessing
 :gravity Interesting. Round remaining hp up or down?
 :life Probably not. It would shut all bolt decks down. Not even Reflective Mirror does that.
 :light Fits
 :time Perhaps
 :water Probably not. It would seem to be too random and uncertain to plan around. (and a low slot Flooding tile would be too Powerful)

Well I was hoping it is possible to code the reveal as the back of a card as well that way the opponent doesn't see it at all

 :aether maybe i could change it so its any creature played meaning yours would be played on your opponents field if you play a creature first
 :darkness the spell played still goes off and i was thinking maybe 2-3 turns
 :death well by spell i meant any healing done like empathetic bond, SOG or sanctuary would also trigger this
 :entropy any creature skill in the game (all have an equal chance)
 :fire this was a bit hard to come up with since I didn't just want a damage trap (seems kinda bland to me) if any one can think of something better I'll consider it
 :gravity rounded up so 7 would end up being 4 for example
 :life the only difference between this and reflective mirror is that this heals you instead of damaging your opponent but it can be stolen and destroyed unlike the reflective shields currently in game
 :water again this was a bit tricky to think of a semi-original mechanic since a freezing creatures seems too bland and redundant

Quote from: Manipul8r on April 28, 2011, 06:15:10 am

What I really dislike about this is that your opponent will see what quanta you used to play it, and if they know what that element's trap does, they'll know what will happen.  This rewards players for paying attention closely when it's not their turn and for memorizing cards, which is bad for new players in particular.

But it's possible these ideas could be used differently, so I'll do some OT style critiquing.

 :aether Could be balanced if it had some restriction, like 'creature with ATK<X (or HP<X, or quanta cost<X, etc).'
 :air Why would air screw over something airborne?  Maybe good for another element.
 :darkness Seems redundant to me, why not just play Cloak?
 :entropy Does the original skill still take effect?
 :fire Same question as with the darkness one and what OT said.
 :gravity Round up IMO.  But it seems pretty weak, especially in Gravity.  I think it would be better if it also halved ATK.
 :time For your opponent?  Wouldn't that often be helpful to him?

well most traps if your specifically on the look out for them can be spotted before you walk into them so these should be no different

 :aether see above response to OldTrees i think this helps balance it
 :air this element deals with airborne creatures so why wouldn't a trap in this element deal with airborne creatures
 :darkness because cloak hides your field from the opponent this card would hide their own field from them after they trigger it
 :entropy no only the one chosen at random
 :fire see response to OldTrees
 :gravity atk might be more useful in players eyes but gravity deals with mass which would be health, as for being weak it would allow Otyugh to grow faster with a mono deck
 :time while it can help your opponent (to help balance it) its more likely that it will help you since once you play it your unlikely to try and kill your opponents creatures

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: OldTrees on April 28, 2011, 04:01:32 pm

Quote from: Manipul8r on April 28, 2011, 06:15:10 am

:air Why would air screw over something airborne?  Maybe good for another element.

See Web. Only Air affects Airborne as of yet.

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: Hermis0 on April 28, 2011, 04:31:00 pm

While cards are revealed when played, it does not have to be that way.  Whether or not Zanz would want to change that is up to him.

I love this concept.  There is potential to put them into Permanent slots or onto the field of battle in random locations.

I think de-cloaking spells should reveal them.

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: artimies7 on May 01, 2011, 06:00:42 pm

Quote from: Hermis0 on April 28, 2011, 04:31:00 pm

While cards are revealed when played, it does not have to be that way.  Whether or not Zanz would want to change that is up to him.

I love this concept.  There is potential to put them into Permanent slots or onto the field of battle in random locations.

I think de-cloaking spells should reveal them.

If 'facedown cards' aren't possible in the game coding now, then consider Cloaking as an alternative. This would be seen as a little rectangle with a cloak sign on it.

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: EmeraldTiger on May 09, 2011, 02:45:58 pm

I was also thinking Cloaking the individual card would be best option. I didn't know anyone else had suggested that till now.

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: BluePriest on May 09, 2011, 03:13:29 pm

All of these would actually work as face-up cards that are triggerable. I could see all of these as being used to delay your opponent and could even b MORE useful if the opponent knows you are going to use it.

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: Seraph on May 09, 2011, 04:12:46 pm

I agree with BP, these cards would work perfectly well as faceup permanents.

If the traps really should be hidden, another mechanic I was thinking about was having a generic trap card permanent played, then on your next turn activate the trap mechanism into whatever trap it should be (perhaps target a pillar, or your mark like pillars and tears) to change the ability of the generic trap.
This makes traps activate after a turn of warning, while keeping anonymity of the actual effect.

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: AngeDeMort on May 10, 2011, 04:18:35 am

Added a poll for how traps should be seen on the field

Quote from: Seraph on May 09, 2011, 04:12:46 pm

If the traps really should be hidden, another mechanic I was thinking about was having a generic trap card permanent played, then on your next turn activate the trap mechanism into whatever trap it should be (perhaps target a pillar, or your mark like pillars and tears) to change the ability of the generic trap.
This makes traps activate after a turn of warning, while keeping anonymity of the actual effect.

So something like an other trap card with an ability like "set: change skill to trap skill of target pillar/mark"? Kinda kills the series since it's just one card but is an interesting idea

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: ratcharmer on May 10, 2011, 05:43:37 pm

One thing to note with balancing on a couple of these, especially :light :entropy and :gravity

You're using up one of your cards to partially counter one card from your opponent, and you don't even get to pick which card it affects. Thus they'll tend to be very UP, even if you give them a low cost.

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: OldTrees on May 10, 2011, 05:46:30 pm

Quote from: ratcharmer on May 10, 2011, 05:43:37 pm

One thing to note with balancing on a couple of these, especially :light and :gravity

You're using up one of your cards to partially counter one card from your opponent, and you don't even get to pick which card it affects. Thus they'll tend to be very UP, even if you give them a low cost.

Partial countering is common for cheap targeted CC.

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: AngeDeMort on May 22, 2011, 05:24:08 pm

IT IS DONE!!

I still need some feedback on some of them,  :death, :earth, :light, :entropy, and  :water I believe are ones that have had no comments on them. I would also like some more votes in the poll, though it is leaning towards a cloaked hiding mechanism. I am still open to better mechanics for the cards.

Any of these look crucible ready?

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: artimies7 on May 30, 2011, 12:29:25 am

Aether and Earth look the best IMHO. As one famous plumber has said, (who I have never actually seen do any plumbing whatsoever, btw)
LET'S-A GO!
(http://freegamebars.com/toolbars/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/realmario.png)

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: mildlyfrightenedboy on August 03, 2011, 07:00:52 am

Maybe you could add a Neutral card called Backfire|Crossfire that steals or disables enemy traps.  Something along that line.

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: AngeDeMort on August 03, 2011, 02:32:52 pm

Quote from: MildlyFrightenedBoy on August 03, 2011, 07:00:52 am

Maybe you could add a Neutral card called Backfire|Crossfire that steals or disables enemy traps.  Something along that line.

A trap for a trap card? Not a bad idea but I think that existing pc like steal and pulvy have it covered as well as the abundance of ideas on this forum that freeze/delay non weapon permanents, just because you can't necessarily tell what it is doesn't mean it's not targetable (unless of course cloak or enchant artifact is played  :)))

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: Bonestorm on August 03, 2011, 03:43:31 pm

Balance of the individual cards aside, 'traps' would be really cool, and I think they should be hidden although if you're extra crafty you will see the - quanta when the card is played and know it anyway, even if the card is cloaked. ;)

One very important mechanic would be when the trap activates, at the end of the turn, or as soon as a card is played to trigger it. It really needs to trigger immediately to have a good effect for most of them.

My favourite is the darkness version looks epic.  :)

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: Frostguard on August 03, 2011, 03:48:38 pm

The concept is very interesting, I really like it. Aether is maybe overpowered. Air is very situational, darkness and death are interesting. Earth is maybe overpowered, entropy is way too random (even for entropy). Fire is good, so are gravity, life, light and time. Water is again too random.
That's what I think.

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: mildlyfrightenedboy on August 04, 2011, 08:25:06 pm

Also:
Portal is going to wreak hell upon Chimera decks.

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: Elite arbiter on August 26, 2011, 05:18:16 am

Do these trigger on you as well if you do an action that 'triggers' it? I ask because some of them, but not all, state enemy, which suggests that some are meant to be able to backfire.

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: AngeDeMort on August 29, 2011, 01:07:35 pm

the ones that don't specifically state enemy can trigger on yourself yes

Title: Re: IT'S A TRAP(S)! - a series of traps
Post by: pancosis on August 30, 2011, 09:08:49 am

they seem to not be even and some only work in certain situations, it would require alot of work before it works