Seism: Extensive breakdown and strategy forum

[Dragoon]

Nice guide for Seism.  I think you covered all the bases.  There was a couple pointers I hadn't thought of, so thanks for the extensive write-up.  In my deck, I decided to go with a second Druid instead of the Demon mainly because of my strategy to not be so dependent on FFQ.  But I do miss him against Seism.  How important is Steal?  I know it makes it a lot easier to win when you can steal his Shield, but he only has 2 of them in a 92 card deck so it can't be critical.  I'm trying to keep a small deck so is it worth replacing a Supernova with a Steal?

PS: I'm going to link to this article from my FG strategy guide.  This is too good to pass up for those learning how to beat Seism.

[jmizzle7]

Thanks for the props, Dragoon!

I actually have never used Maxwell's Demon in any god farming deck ever. I put him in the card list because of the decklist you shared with me. I run two druids myself.

I don't think Steal is vital, but I run two in my deck because there are always at least two permanents worth stealing/destroying. Graviton has two Titan, Gemini has two Lobo, Seism has two Diamond Shield, etc.

[jmizzle7]

Seism:
Strategy Breakdown

Deck has 2x cards listed above

Forewarning: this is an advanced strategy thread, running on the assumption that the reader is familiar with rainbow decks and the false gods, and has access to upgraded cards. Any beginner questions should be directed to another thread.

I have seen a ton of posts all over the forums asking how to beat Seism using a traditional rainbow deck. I will not post an exact rainbow deck list, as not everybody has the same playing style and preference. This thread is not an anti-Seism deck building thread either. Rather, I will give specific card-by-card analysis of the most popular cards used in the rainbow archetype in the context of the Seism matchup, and later will discuss general strategies in the early game, middle, and late game. If I leave any cards out, just let me know and I will add it to the original post. If you have any further questions or comments on Seism strategy, this is the thread.

Quantum Tower - Well, you have to play your cards somehow, and 99% of all rainbow decks use at least a few of these. You want to get maximum value out of these, and since Seism packs Quicksand, you should try to minimize the effect of Quicksand by playing one at a time, making him target your towers one by one. If you see that he is down to one or two cards in hand and is not casting Quicksand on your tower, it is a good idea to play the rest of your towers to try and get a couple of turns worth of quanta generated from them, as they do you no good just sitting in your hand.

Supernova - by far, the MVP in this match. In Entropy mark rainbow, this ensures that you have the quanta to play everything else in your deck. In Time mark rainbow, it is a little more difficult to cast because you have to get the two quanta from towers, but once you do, it's amazing. Particularly against Seism, you really need as much quanta as possible, and this is the best way to get it.

Fallen Druid - this guy is a great utility creature, and is absolutely necessary, if Seism gets a protected Diamond Shield out, to turn your skeletons into giant mutants. He's also capable of shrinking Basalt Dragons to edible size, though not as effective as Fallen Elf.
Fallen Elf - much more effective at turning opposing creatures into smaller guys, as most of the time they will become 5/5 Aboms. The downside is he can't make huge mutants as well as the druid.

Maxwell's Demon - If you use Entropy rainbow, this guy is a pure gem against Seism. He can take out every large creature Seism throws at you, even Basalt Dragons after you Firestorm them. The downside to this is the ability is expensive at two entropy, but at least it takes some heat off of your Otyugh. Either way, Maxwell's Demon is entirely optional and isn't necessary, as Otyugh is generally better in almost every other matchup.

Bone Wall - Okay, this is where things get interesting. Bone Wall, while stellar in every other matchup, is absolutely horrible against Seism. You do not have the luxury of endless quanta, so spending 5 or 7 death quanta on a shield that will likely fall to Gemfinders and burrowed Shriekers is no good. Besides, you should have something much better to spend your death quanta on...

Graveyard - this little creature spammer is a nightmare for Seism. Elite Skeletons are not a big enough threat for Seism to use Rewind on them, and two damage apiece adds up. Combined with Feral Bonds, Druid, and Otyugh, Graveyard is just killer. Save all of your death quanta for these. The downside for Graveyard is found in other matchups, as it is the only permanent that ties Bone Wall in priority when the AI uses Steal or Explosion.
Boneyard - this is a good alternative if you don't have Graveyard. The skeletons generated will kill slower, though. In other matchups, Boneyard is safe under Bone Wall, but your skeletons will not survive Fire Buckler or a single Plague. Using either Boneyard or Graveyard is necessary, but which one to use is a matter of preference.

Elite Otyugh - a staple of the rainbow deck. While you can freely eat anything and everything in other matchups, against Seism you do not have the luxury. Only play one Otyugh, as any more than that will just waste 4 quanta. Only eat Seism's large threats (Basalt/Silurian Dragons), and if you can, eat some Shriekers and Steel Golems, but they aren't as big of a threat as the dragons.

Pulverizer - While great in other matchups, Pulverizer isn't great here, as you need gravity quanta for Otyugh, and the only permanent worth destroying is Seism's own Pulv, of which he has two. Don't destroy his shield unless you don't have a steal in hand and are afraid he will protect it.

Protect Artifact - this is another card that I consider completely unnecessary. While it is nice to protect your towers and almost guarantee a win against Seism, PA is a dead card in every other matchup that doesn't have permanent removal. Against decks like Hermes, Rainbow, and Chaos Lord, Bone Wall is a much better card to protect your permanents, as the AI will always target your Bone Wall before anything else. With that in mind, PA isn't worth running just for the matchup against Seism.

Feral Bond - another staple card, this is your source of life gain so you can survive long enough to win. Combined with Graveyard/Boneyard, you can survive the massive creature spam that Seism throws at you.

Firestorm - this card is the reason you shouldn't eat Seism's Gemfinders with Otyugh. Wait as long as possible to play this, as you want to kill as many creatures and generate as many skeletons as possible with it.

Ulitharid - an optional creature. This guy is just awful against Seism, because all he can do is lobotomize Shriekers, keeping them above ground. This is called a bad play. If you do run him for his usefulness in other matchups, I would consider him to be good discard fodder in the early game against Seism.

Arctic Octopus - another optional creature. Congeal is a much better ability against Seism, although you probably will not be able to use the ability more than a few times. There are much better cards you can use.

Improved Miracle - Miracle is a great card, and it has its uses. Time mark rainbow uses basic Sundials, so it has more light quanta to spend on this card. Entropy mark rainbow should use upgraded Sundials (for reasons irrelevant to the Seism matchup), so there really is no room for Miracle.

Elite Queen - FFQ is a nice creature generator, but against Seism, I will go ahead and say that she is a dead card. The ability costs two life quanta, which is just plain expensive, considering the fact that you need all of that quanta for bonds and druids. In addition, the flies you generate are lightning rods for Rewind. While some say it is good strategy to make flies to draw out Seism's Rewinds, I say it is just a bad play unless you already have the board dominated. You absolutely have to be able to maintain your card draw, and those flies will keep you from digging deeper.

Electrum Hourglass - the best outlet for your time quanta. Whether or not you use Hourglass is dependent on how big your deck is. Against Seism, only play as many as you need, especially if you run Entropy mark. Seism's Rewinds are reason enough to use Hourglass liberally without worrying about having the quanta to use Eternity.

Eternity - great in other matchups, Eternity is just too expensive to warrant use against Seism. Besides, he keeps you from decking already with Rewind, so just don't worry about playing Eternity in this matchup.

Sundial - Whether or not you use basic or upgraded Sundial, the strategy behind using Sundial against Seism is to play them as late as possible, maximizing your ability to use hasten and stopping the most damage possible.

Elite Anubis - Some people love Anubis, especially against Seism. I see him as a liability more than an asset. At eight time quanta, he is pretty difficult to get out, and much like fireflies, is a lightning rod for Rewind. It's really not worth risking the loss of eight time quanta and a card draw, especially considering the fact that playing Anubis again will take some time. If it does last a turn, though, you have a good chance of winning. It's a matter of preference, but I consider the risk to be greater than the reward.

Steal - most rainbow decks run at least one of these. The only card you should ever steal from Seism is Diamond Shield. Don't be cute and steal his tower so he will "waste" a Quicksand on it. In reality you are trading a Steal for his Quicksand, which is a favorable trade for Seism.

Twin Universe - an optional card, TU is tremendous in other matchups. Against Seism, the best use for TU is on your own Otyugh to create a backup copy in case he Rewinds the first.

Phase Shield - Time mark rainbow decks may use Phase Shield, but most Entropy rainbows do not. If you use it, it is stellar against Seism. Just try to play it as late as possible to maximize its usefulness and refrain from playing it in conjunction with Sundial.

[jmizzle7]

General Strategy

Early Game:
- Your goal in the early game is to establish your quanta. Play supernovas as you get them and play your towers one at a time, forcing Seism to use Quicksand on single towers. If he is down to 1-2 cards in hand and has not used QS on your tower, go ahead and play the rest of your towers to get maximum value out of them.
- Do not play Sundial if you are over your hand size limit. Instead, discard a card. The cards you really want to discard are Bone Wall, Elite Queen, Elite Otyugh (only if you have more than one in hand), and Eternity.
- Once you play Otyugh, only eat Silurian Dragon or unburrowed Shriekers. Don’t bother with Gemfinders or Antlions. Save your quanta to play bonds and yards as soon as possible, and play hourglass if you have it.

Midgame:
- The midgame is your opportunity to build up your board with skeletons and dig into your deck. Do not mutate them, as you run the risk of triggering Rewind. Let Seism take your health down quite a bit, as low as 40. By this time you should be able to start chaining Sundials with enough light quanta to hasten every turn.
- If you have Steal in hand, save it for his Diamond Shield! His burrowed Shriekers and Pulverizer will only deal two damage through it. Mutate and eat his Basalt Dragons and Steel Golems if possible, and you should be able to heal the damage he deals every turn.
- Save extra gravity quanta in case your Otyugh becomes large enough for Rewind, or use Twin Universe on your Otyugh while it is small. You have to have a way to deal with his large creatures, so keeping an Otyugh or Maxwell up and running is key.

Late Game:
- Seism will save up a ton of Rewinds to use on your creatures. If you play it correctly, you should just have Druids, Otyughs, Skeletons, and maybe a Queen. By this point in the game, you should have enough quanta to replay them. After this point, feel free to go for the throat and mutate your skeletons.
- If you have any Sundials left over, use them only if you need to gain some life, but you should be fine.

That's it! If you have any more questions or comments regarding strategy, feel free to post them here.

[Scaredgirl]

A sticky thread is there because of the information content. Not because of its popularity.

Not everything is a popularity contest, SG.

Ok, what about this thread by Dragoon on this same forum? http://elementstheforum.smfforfree3.com/index.php/topic,936.0.html (http://elementstheforum.smfforfree3.com/index.php/topic,936.0.html)

It has tons of good information on how to beat ALL the Gods (not just Seism) and it also has 5 times more views. Now why is that thread not stickied? I'll tell you why.. because nobody has suggested it!

This is what I mean by not having a system. Mods cannot just wait for people to suggest a thread to be stickied and then just do it without thinking.

Bottom line is that this thread after 250 views got stickied (when OP asked for it) over others that are more popular and give more information.

[Scaredgirl]

I'm not a superhero, lol. I can't read every thread and figure out which should or shouldn't be stickied. I stickied this one because I do agree that it has a lot of well written and described information and because Jmizzle requested it.

I usually only come here to check NEW posts, so I tend not to go back over older threads and decide which are or aren't sticky-worthy. Once there are a lot more threads that have sticky-worthy information, we might need to rework the structure of the forum to add or remove sections so that the information could be easier to find without taking up too much space per page.

I do agree with Scaredgirl, however. This thread is great, but as a sticky it'll eventually just clutter up the top of the screen. Right now, we don't have many stickies in this section, so I'll leave it here, but once there are more things that require being stickied, we'll find some way to rework them.

Also, Scaredgirl, if you wouldn't mind, would you write up some rules for stickied threads?

This will be my last post on this subject.

You don't have to be a superhero or have written rules to know what threads to sticky and what not to. Sticky thread should be:
1. Full of useful information
2. Popular (meaning most people find the information useful)

Now some people think sticky threads only require #1 but they are wrong, because how can something that doesn't get that many views, be useful information? Maybe you are only thinking about this subjectively and only think that other users will also find the information useful?

This thread here is full of seemingly useful information but for some reason it only had less then 250 views at the time it was stickied (although being here over a month). That tells us that our community does not feel this thread is really that useful, therefore it does not need stickying. You see this kind of detailed anti-Seism strategies interest only the "pro-gamers" which are a very small minority on this thread.

[Uncle Jellyfish]

I'm not a superhero, lol. I can't read every thread and figure out which should or shouldn't be stickied. I stickied this one because I do agree that it has a lot of well written and described information and because Jmizzle requested it.

I usually only come here to check NEW posts, so I tend not to go back over older threads and decide which are or aren't sticky-worthy. Once there are a lot more threads that have sticky-worthy information, we might need to rework the structure of the forum to add or remove sections so that the information could be easier to find without taking up too much space per page.

I do agree with Scaredgirl, however. This thread is great, but as a sticky it'll eventually just clutter up the top of the screen. Right now, we don't have many stickies in this section, so I'll leave it here, but once there are more things that require being stickied, we'll find some way to rework them.

Also, Scaredgirl, if you wouldn't mind, would you write up some rules for stickied threads?

[Daxx]

Now some people think sticky threads only require #1 but they are wrong, because how can something that doesn't get that many views, be useful information?

Playing devil's advocate for a moment here: a reference thread containing the forum rules won't get many views. People might read it once and move on. A random thread containing massive drama and flaming might get loads, and people will keep coming back to it. Clearly one contains information that is useful and the other does not. I see your point and I agree with you to some extent, but I think we need to apply a little judgement on a case-by-case basis because otherwise we'd be falling prey to argumentum ad populum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum).

What might be more useful in this situation is, if jmizzle wants to do more in this series, to sticky an Index thread which links to each individual thread, and have the other individual threads be free-floating.

[jmizzle7]

That would work.

I understand that it is a bit odd to have a stickied thread with relatively few views, but I get so many people in chat asking about Seism that I decided to make this thread. There has been a surge in new players lately and some of them haven't taken the time to scour the forums for every thread with useful information, so I figured a sticky on this thread would help those players find it.

I fully support an index system. That would make more sense.

[Scaredgirl]

Now some people think sticky threads only require #1 but they are wrong, because how can something that doesn't get that many views, be useful information?

Playing devil's advocate for a moment here: a reference thread containing the forum rules won't get many views. People might read it once and move on. A random thread containing massive drama and flaming might get loads, and people will keep coming back to it. Clearly one contains information that is useful and the other does not. I see your point and I agree with you to some extent, but I think we need to apply a little judgement on a case-by-case basis because otherwise we'd be falling prey to argumentum ad populum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum).

Yes, I know what you mean. When a thread is an important one (like Donations, Forum Rules, etc.) then it doesn't have to be popular.

What might be more useful in this situation is, if jmizzle wants to do more in this series, to sticky an Index thread which links to each individual thread, and have the other individual threads be free-floating.

Yes, Index! That's the word. I tried to say this same thing but I forgot the word and could only think of "compilation" or something. The whole paragraph ended up looking like it was written by a retarded person so I deleted the whole thing.

Yes, this is what we need. Sticky index thread that has links to all different kinds of False God strategies. Also it would be cool to have some kind of "Elements FAQ" type of index thread (under General Discussion) that had links to all the most important threads on our forum. Kind of like "Elements 101 Basic Course".


p.s. I guess my previous post wasn't my last post on the subject

[Avenger]

>Don't be cute and steal his tower so he will "waste" a Quicksand on it. In reality you are trading a Steal for his Quicksand, which is a favorable trade for Seism.

Well, if the priority is to destroy earth pillars, and i have my quantum pillars already planted, i think it is a good bargain.
With two steals in hand, i ALWAYS steal one of his pillars while i can.

[Celidion]

>Don't be cute and steal his tower so he will "waste" a Quicksand on it. In reality you are trading a Steal for his Quicksand, which is a favorable trade for Seism.

Well, if the priority is to destroy earth pillars, and i have my quantum pillars already planted, i think it is a good bargain.
With two steals in hand, i ALWAYS steal one of his pillars while i can.

That could be good if you have a pulverizer in had/on field, but if you don't it's a really tricky movie. What if he played a diamond shield next? Than another one?