*Author

Offline PhyssionTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 884
  • Country: nz
  • Reputation Power: 19
  • Physsion is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Physsion is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Physsion is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Your friendly neighbourhood owl
  • Awards: 11th Trials - Master of DarknessSlice of Elements 8th Birthday Cake10th Trials - Master of Darkness2nd Grandmaster Battle Winner - DarknessSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWar #9 Winner - Team DarknessWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerMaster Flag - Winner (Air Flag)9th Trials - Master of DarknessSlice of Elements 6th Birthday Cake
Linear algebra help needed - checking basis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61821.msg1231314#msg1231314
« on: April 21, 2016, 06:25:29 am »
Hello,

Code: [Select]
Check whether the set {x^2 − 5, 3x^2 + 1, x + 1} is a basis of the space of polynomials over Q of degree at most 2. Justify your answer (show all work).(Q being the rationals)

I'm really not sure how to approach this question - would really appreciate any assistance working through this. How do I check whether or not this is a basis?

Offline iancudorinmarian

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3772
  • Country: ro
  • Reputation Power: 67
  • iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.
  • Master of Ponies.Eternally salty about War#11 SEC.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWar #12 Winner - Team Darkness12th Trials - Master of EntropyWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner11th Trials - Master of EntropySlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWinner of TrinityWinner of Team PvP #710th Trials - Master of EntropySlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner9th Trials - Master of EntropyWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 5th Birthday Cake
Re: Linear algebra help needed - checking basis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61821.msg1231316#msg1231316
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2016, 07:02:25 am »
Let’s say those polynomiăls are a, b, c. You have to prove that there are three numbers u1, u2, u3 differemt from 0 that u1*a+u2*b+u3*c=0

On phone, really hard to type :/

iirc, there is a theorem that says "any n liniarily  independent vectors form a base"
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 07:05:39 am by iancudorinmarian »

Offline Jenkar

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4199
  • Country: fr
  • Reputation Power: 58
  • Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.
  • Heart's made of shadows
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeChampionship League 2/2013 WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake6th Trials - Master of AirWinner of Revive the Archive 2!Slice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeBeginners League 1/2012 WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner5th Trials - Master of AirAvatar of Patience - Winner of the 7 Heavenly Virtues Deck CompetitionBeginners League 3/2011 3rd PlaceC-C-C-Combo Maker Winner!
Re: Linear algebra help needed - checking basis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61821.msg1231318#msg1231318
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2016, 07:54:23 am »
Since i'm bored in class :
We know that the dimension of the linear vector space of polynomials on R of degree <= 2 (named after R[X]) is 3.
Let us prove that the linear vector space of polynomials on Q of degree <= 2 (named after Q[X]) is a subspace of R[X].
- The "0" of R[X] is the null polynomial, 0. 0 is in Q[X].
- If a is in Q[X] and b is in Q[X], then a+b is in Q[X].
- Let k be in R, and a be in Q[X]. k * a is in Q[X] (we don't add any roots, and all the roots stay the same)
Therefore, Q[X] is a subspace of R[X].
Hence, the dim(Q[X]) <= dim(R[X]) = 3

Now, we have the vectors x^2-5 , 3x^2 + 1, x+1. Let us prove that they are linearly independant.
Let a,b,c be so that for all x, a(x^2-5) + b(3x^2 + 1) + c(x+1) = 0.
This gives us :
a+3b = 0
c = 0
-5a+b+c = 0
Hence :
a+3b = 0
-15a +3b = 0
c = 0
And so :
c=0
a+3b = 0
16a = 0
Which gives us a = b = c = 0, hence the vectors are linearly independent.
Since we have 3 independent vectors and we know that the dimension of the space is at most 3, we have that the dimension of the space is 3 and hence that the 3 vectors form a basis (see http://ltcconline.net/greenl/courses/203/Vectors/basisDimension.htm ).
CQFD.
The madness is in each of us. Close your eyes, sing, and open your webbed wings to the silent winds.
Beautiful art : http://i.imgur.com/eUhyYCC.png

Offline iancudorinmarian

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3772
  • Country: ro
  • Reputation Power: 67
  • iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.
  • Master of Ponies.Eternally salty about War#11 SEC.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWar #12 Winner - Team Darkness12th Trials - Master of EntropyWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner11th Trials - Master of EntropySlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWinner of TrinityWinner of Team PvP #710th Trials - Master of EntropySlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner9th Trials - Master of EntropyWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 5th Birthday Cake
Re: Linear algebra help needed - checking basis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61821.msg1231321#msg1231321
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2016, 08:08:39 am »
I messed up, Jenkar is right, they have to be 0 (a, b, c)

Offline PhyssionTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 884
  • Country: nz
  • Reputation Power: 19
  • Physsion is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Physsion is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.Physsion is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Your friendly neighbourhood owl
  • Awards: 11th Trials - Master of DarknessSlice of Elements 8th Birthday Cake10th Trials - Master of Darkness2nd Grandmaster Battle Winner - DarknessSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWar #9 Winner - Team DarknessWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerMaster Flag - Winner (Air Flag)9th Trials - Master of DarknessSlice of Elements 6th Birthday Cake
Re: Linear algebra help needed - checking basis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61821.msg1231323#msg1231323
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2016, 09:00:49 am »
Thank you, Jenkar - I've just seen your solution after finding another method from a classmate. Really appreciate the time you put into this, I'm able to follow your explanation. The other method is below:



For the set {x^2 - 5, 3x^2 + 1, x + 1}, let:
a1 = x^2 - 5
a2 = 3x^2 + 1
a3 = x + 1;

And let:
b1 = x^2
b2 = x
b3 = 1

Thus:
b1 = 1(a1) + 3(a2)
b2 = 1(a3)
b3 = -5(a1) + 1(a2) + 1(a3)

This can then be put into a matrix with respect to a and b.

1 3 0
0 0 1
-5 1 1

Following the elementary row operations:
R2 <--> R3
R2 --> R2 + 5R1
R2 --> R2 - R3
R2 --> R2 / 16
R1 --> R1  - 3R2

We end up with the matrix in row-reduced echelon form, which, in this case, forms the identity matrix.

100
010
001

Because this ends up as the identity matrix, we know there must exist a single unique solution for any arbitrary polynomial in Q<=2, and all three terms are linearly independent, thus this set must form a basis.



I understand everything up until the final step - I'm not exactly sure why the identity matrix tells us this. Can anyone else confirm it for me?

Offline Jenkar

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4199
  • Country: fr
  • Reputation Power: 58
  • Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.
  • Heart's made of shadows
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeChampionship League 2/2013 WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake6th Trials - Master of AirWinner of Revive the Archive 2!Slice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeBeginners League 1/2012 WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner5th Trials - Master of AirAvatar of Patience - Winner of the 7 Heavenly Virtues Deck CompetitionBeginners League 3/2011 3rd PlaceC-C-C-Combo Maker Winner!
Re: Linear algebra help needed - checking basis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61821.msg1231327#msg1231327
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2016, 09:37:14 am »
Short version : since you obtain that matrix by elementary row operations, that means that there is a combination of b1, b2 and b3 that is equal to a1, a combination of b1, b2, and b3 that is equal to a2, and a combination of b1, b2 and b3 that is equal to a3.

And (very important) vice versa.
Since you can build vectors that form a basis from your starting vectors, that means that your starting vectors form a generating set. This (without any assumptions about independance & dimensionality) does NOT show that the solution they generate is unique, just that they can generate one.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 09:39:00 am by Jenkar »
The madness is in each of us. Close your eyes, sing, and open your webbed wings to the silent winds.
Beautiful art : http://i.imgur.com/eUhyYCC.png

Offline andretimpa

  • Master of Gravity
  • *
  • ******
  • Posts: 3813
  • Country: br
  • Reputation Power: 58
  • andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.
  • OMG how did I get here I'm not good with computers
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 15th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday Cake14th Trials - Master of GravitySong of the Day Tourney Most Creative DeckSlice of Elements 11th Birthday Cake13th Trials - Master of GravitySlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeArt Competition - RedecoratingSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeArt Competition: MS Paint #9 WinnerArt Competition: League of the Battle Champion WinnerArt Competition: Foil ArtWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeArt Competition: Paint With Elements - The Elemental AvatarsSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeCompetition - A Challenge of Challenges1st Place WC Winner: October 20151st Place Weekly Challenge Winner: September 2015Weekly Design August 2015 - GoldWeekly Design July 2015 - SilverSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeForum Brawl #4 WinnerPaint with Elements Competition WinnerSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: Linear algebra help needed - checking basis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61821.msg1231340#msg1231340
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2016, 12:48:12 pm »
In a more general sense you can show a set of vectors is a basis if you can generate a known basis (1, x, x^2 for example) from them and the number of elements in the set matches the dimension (as long as the dimension is finite ;))
Every time a graboid evolves, an elemental gets his wings.
:gravity Guild (old), War 9 & 13 (gen) / :time Brawl 2 & 3, War 7 & 14 / :death War 8 & 12 / :fire Brawl 4 / :entropy Brawl 5 / :darkness War 10

Offline dragonsdemesne

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5283
  • Country: aq
  • Reputation Power: 63
  • dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!
  • Leeeeeeeeeeroyyyyyyyyy....
  • Awards: Weekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 1/2014 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 3/2013 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 2/2013 WinnerBattle League 1/2013 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 3/2012 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 2/2012 3rd Place
Re: Linear algebra help needed - checking basis https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61821.msg1231389#msg1231389
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2016, 11:14:00 pm »
I can't remember the exact details (~15 yrs since I did this) but the fact that you get the identity matrix at the end means that those three polynomials (in one quantity or another) can describe any rational 2nd order function. (in this case, since x^2 is the highest power)  I don't remember the reason this is true; I think it's something to do with the definition of a basis.

 

blarg: Khaleesi