*Author

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: No one can win any arguments, ever. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49005.msg1067197#msg1067197
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2013, 09:31:36 am »
...did you seriously try to convince people of stuff on 4chan?

It might've been one of those relatively good parts of 4chan. Try /b/.
I know of 2 Btards in real life. I tried to convince them that trolling is not worth their time. The one I met in high school was convinced. The one I met in college corrected me.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline Higurashi

  • Administrator
  • ********
  • Posts: 7835
  • Country: no
  • Reputation Power: 103
  • Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • Æther in Æternum enim Æquilibrio
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 15th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 14th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 13th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWinner of Team PvP #6Slice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerFalse Gods Competition: Reloaded - WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake4th Trials - Master of Aether3rd Trials - Master of AetherWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: No one can win any arguments, ever. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49005.msg1067307#msg1067307
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2013, 05:47:05 pm »
Basically, of course you don't want to be contradicting someone if you ever want to convince them of something. Almost any other method is more effective and respectful, and many methods are very effective while still not forcing you to compromise logic, rationality or having to suck up to anyone. In the end, winning an argument just means someone has learned something from the exchange. That's the only way to win anything in life.

I've once read somewhere, can't remember where, that people don't exactly care about learning anything or about truth. They just want to win, or at least not lose, to feed their egos or something along those lines. It's true that such tendencies are less prominent in some people than others, and such people can appear to argue and learn rationally. But on a subconscious level, I'd think that everyone is at least somewhat affected by the backfire effect. You can't be a mentally normal human without having an ego.
Mm, I don't know. I've known a lot of competitive teenagers alright, my little brother being one of them, but people usually grow out of that since it's just a manifestation of identity-seeking and insecurity. Egos are a very fragile thing when they don't have much experience yet, and thus very defensive.

I don't think a mature, rational individual is ever forced into a backfire effect unless it's earthshaking to their existence. Some people need their strong beliefs in order to keep on trucking, but I don't think most people are ever forced into the backfire effect. Having an ego doesn't equate to irrationally responding with your emotions just because something contests one of your beliefs. I've come to know a lot of open-minded people and if I may be a bit presumptuous I think your bitterness could be cured in the same way mine was. I was a wronged, lonely and angry teenager coming out of a terrible childhood.

That said, sure, most young people think it's too much work to be open-minded. They're generally pretty uninformed and lazy, but it's getting better. More and more are taking an interest in society, and the age where people are getting more involved seems to be lowering. Even the net ain't so bad; you just have to find the constructive communities. The net tends to make people follow existing trends where they are even more than normal.
:aether  http://elementscommunity.org/forum/guilds/991-thunderbolts-ho!-991/ :aether
Aether is the prime Element present in all things, providing space, connection and balance for all Elements to exist.
Aether represents the sense of joy and union, and the ultimate potential of all things.

Offline kimham8a

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 964
  • Country: ca
  • Reputation Power: 16
  • kimham8a is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.kimham8a is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.kimham8a is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • God of this world
Re: No one can win any arguments, ever. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49005.msg1067572#msg1067572
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2013, 02:48:21 am »
Why do you have links to random advertisements BloodShadow?
So you consider the article I linked an advertisement?
At the time, yes. There may be something wrong with my computer, because every few words in your paragraph had a link to something like "Solid Savings Coupons" or something.
Hey there

Offline BloodshadowTopic starter

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4030
  • Country: ca
  • Reputation Power: 46
  • Bloodshadow is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Bloodshadow is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Bloodshadow is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Bloodshadow is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Bloodshadow is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Bloodshadow is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Bloodshadow is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Bloodshadow is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Bloodshadow is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.
  • 吞天纳地,魔渡众生。天下万物,唯我至尊。
  • Awards: Ultimate Profile WinnerOpposites Attract
Re: No one can win any arguments, ever. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49005.msg1067676#msg1067676
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2013, 08:40:08 am »
I see no advertisements in the article text itself.
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: No one can win any arguments, ever. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49005.msg1067748#msg1067748
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2013, 02:25:36 pm »
Why do you have links to random advertisements BloodShadow?
So you consider the article I linked an advertisement?
At the time, yes. There may be something wrong with my computer, because every few words in your paragraph had a link to something like "Solid Savings Coupons" or something.
I do not see these links. Check your computer for viruses and malware.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline sixers

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
  • Reputation Power: 2
  • sixers is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • New to Elements
Re: No one can win any arguments, ever. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49005.msg1067897#msg1067897
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2013, 09:51:35 pm »
That is for the common sense, average person, discussion type of argument. That's how the average person reasons. That's not how it's done in science and academics.  (at least that's the veil they hide behind, they are probably just as illogical and biased as everyone else. [still, i truly believe we are making progress {at least, i want to believe}] )


Offline 1011686

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Reputation Power: 5
  • 1011686 is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • Young Elemental
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday Cake
Re: No one can win any arguments, ever. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49005.msg1209697#msg1209697
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2015, 08:49:35 am »
i have both seen and and felt the backfire effect.
Very often if i hear someone saying something that disagrees with what i've read (i trust books a lot), i will try and engage them in a conversation. But, i tend to be more persistent and pedantic than most people tolerate, and they ignore my logic.

On the other side, sometimes i say what i think is correct, but a teacher tells me i'm wrong. I will often ignore any evidence they give if it doesn't don't directly contradict what i've said, and once i have (usually) been cobvinced, i feel that they could have explained it better, when they probably talked as informativly as me
How wonderful that we have met with a paradox.
Now we have some hope of making progress. -Niels Bohr

Brawl #6 Pyrocloaks

Offline kaempfer13

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2099
  • Country: de
  • Reputation Power: 44
  • kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.
  • Awards: There Can Only Be One - 2020 WinnerSlice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeOEtG Rags to Riches WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerElements League 3/2018 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerThere Can Be Only One - 2018 WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner12th Trials - Master of TimeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerElements League 2/2017 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWinner of Draft #4 - PvP EventSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerDeckbuilding Competition: It's Greek to MeWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: No one can win any arguments, ever. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49005.msg1209731#msg1209731
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2015, 02:02:49 pm »
I think the best way to overcome the backfire effect (if applicable) is to base your logic on something the other person already believes in. This is a lot easier to accomplish in science than anywhere else, since (supposedly, hopefully) both believe in scientific prove.
Also it should help a lot to:
- see an argument as a way to gather information as opposed to a battle (you would not want to accept losing a battle, even if your initial reasoning was wrong; especially if your initial reasoning was wrong, because then losing adds insult to injury)
- believe that the best way to argue is to consider the other guys opinion as unbiased and thouroughly as possible (like that any logic will be based on at least something you already believe in and you can choose which one sounds more logical to you)
:gravity War 10
:death and tied for master of STANDIN War 11
Master of :time War 12

 

blarg: