(fire soldier) mrpaper 3- 2 Physsion ( entropy lt)

[mrpaper]

1 Thing I forgot to say..  I offered  Physsion the possibility of letting someone else finish the games (likely Calindu as he was online) to stop the desynch problems, he didn't wanted to.   Maybe this could be encouraged if not forced by rules when you only go on desynch after desynch? (without any penalty whatsoever of course as we both we're present to play).   I know it is sad to not play you're games... but the situation is worse as of now then skipping a round.  I don't blame Physsion, if anything I should have insisted more on this.

[hainkarga]

I don't blame Physsion

Guys hang on. All is well now. He doesn't blame Physsion, i'm dancing and crying with joy. Physsion, you lucky you.

[treebeard xiii]

Also, I want to see mrpaper's screenshot of every of his own desync losses to see if he got a good screenshot that complies with the rules. For every time he lost and he desynced, to see if there was actual real bad behaviour from ai's part.

Otherwise, he's just calling bad behaviour on legitimate losses and voiding legitimate matches.

This and every other rager here I can see why you disagree with the ruling but raging after the decision is made is not going to change a thing. If you think you can do better maybe you should've applied for wm when it came around. The fact is the rage is not going to change the ruling and if it does it will be the wms that then get it in the neck. If you can honestly say you wouldn't have done the same thing in the same situation then you are most likely lying human nature dictates what you do in situations like this, noone likes to fail and we would do everything in our power to prevent that failure. Even if it means making a questionable decision on the matter. At the end of the day it is a card game not your career.

[theelkspeaks]

Also, I want to see mrpaper's screenshot of every of his own desync losses to see if he got a good screenshot that complies with the rules. For every time he lost and he desynced, to see if there was actual real bad behaviour from ai's part.

Otherwise, he's just calling bad behaviour on legitimate losses and voiding legitimate matches.

This and every other rager here I can see why you disagree with the ruling but raging after the decision is made is not going to change a thing. If you think you can do better maybe you should've applied for wm when it came around. The fact is the rage is not going to change the ruling and if it does it will be the wms that then get it in the neck. If you can honestly say you wouldn't have done the same thing in the same situation then you are most likely lying human nature dictates what you do in situations like this, noone likes to fail ad we would do everything in our power to prevent that failure. Even if it means making a questionable decision on the matter.

I've conceded games in tournaments and I think even in Sacrifice despite both myself and my opponent beating AI because I knew I had no way out of the situation at time of desync against a human opponent, and only won due to AI misplay.

It's possible for even a seriously competitive player to accept defeat when they are beaten instead of wikilawyering their way into a technical win.

[hainkarga]

This is probably not the place but is related to how high i value being a sportsman. You have my sympathies since we played theelkspeaks. People like you are great addition to this community. My team knows, i valued you high in my draft list just for your sportsmanship. I also drafted Ginyu purely because i witnessed his sportsmanship and he is a great guy. Contrary to what some people seem to think, i value niceness above many other things.  (You were third in my Round 2 draft list then changed to fourth (avenger, utalan, regy, you) and again 3rd on my round 3 list, 1st on my round 4 list)

[Espithel]

Hmm, what's more controversial?

Higs maybe-cheating, or... Whatever is going on here.

If this kind of drama is this common in war, I don't think I want to participate in war nine.

[hainkarga]

You will. You are a weirdo and you love terrible things.

[Vangelios]

Is too complicated to be sportsmanship
playing with a lot of desyncs then print screen is the only recommended solution.
also remember a duel of Haink vs Majofa in 2 wars ago, same problems with desync and the this was trated by PM, the same i suggest here.

[Calindu]

Lesson 1 in PvP with Calindu: Desyncs are your friends, abuse them and you'll win with 30 pillar decks against 31 pillar decks.

Here is an example on how to do it.

Calindu: Desync, play against Ai?
PvPer: Sure.
Calindu: I lost, brb.
PvPer: Gg 1-0.

After 10 minutes:

Calindu: Got screeny?
PvPer: Ugh, no, you said you lost and went brb
Calindu: Sorry, not like I don't trust you, but I can't accept this.

On a more serious note: We use strict rules like that for what? 75% of the time the match will be a desync, and if a screenshot with clear timestamp is not enough then we need some common sense.

[Vangelios]

why accepted to play the game 1d then? to lose and do drama now? also do not know if it was the correct to do.
if accepted WM's decision before why disagrees now? ironically makes the same mistake that you accuse.

[RootRanger]

If we count Physsion's screenshot, the match is a 3-3 tie. But only 6 of the 11 games counted; the other 5 could've gone either way; we don't know because they were desyncs and both players beat the AI. It could have even been 8-3 for Fire or 8-3 for Entropy. There isn't enough information to know who deserves the win because there were too many desyncs.

In the match in question, it was played after two desyncs in which both players beat the AI. What if those had been easy victories for mrpaper, but his AI misplayed to give Physsion the win on his screen? Would it seriously be dishonorable for him to concede a game that he may have already won twice? Or, what if he lost to the AI because of RNG - because Discord/Fog crippled him on his screen, but perhaps not on his opponent's screen? There are far too many variables for us to say with certainty that Game 1 deserves to be a win for Physsion.

I would like to remind everyone that it is very easy to fabricate a screenshot that looks exactly like what Physsion posted. This does not mean I think Physsion fabricated the screenshot. Rather, if we allow screenshots like the one Physsion posted to count, then players could post a screenshot indicating a win, even if they lost the actual game. This would allow for cheating at an unprecedented level, a far more disastrous outcome than an arguably unfair ruling of a single match.

But what would be even worse is to allow this match to count at all. If we let an entire match be decided solely on desyncs, then a hypothetical cheater could intentionally desync every game that looks like a loss, which can be very easy to tell in just the first couple turns. Physsion should have substituted when Calindu was available to play, and the fact that he chose to continue playing a desync-riddled game instead of a fair match is just as questionable as claiming the win after losing to the AI. As a summary:

1.) We do not know whether Fire or Entropy deserved the win, because too many of the games were unresolved desyncs.
2.) We should only allow screenshots that show the turn before the win.
3.) This match should not even count because all of the games were desyncs.

Entropy and Fire have agreed to restart the game at 0-0, with Calindu substituting for mrpaper. May the best deck win.

[theelkspeaks]

I am extremely happy to see RootRanger's post.

I would like to contest one minor point, however - the ease of faking the screenshot.

Factors that allow verifiability in a you won screenshot:
1) lack of spins proves it was a PVP duel.
2) time in corner proves that the screenshot isn't merely an old one, along with chat.
3) comparing the clock in the corner and the time of the "in" message in the chat window to the seconds elapsed in the game and showing they are reasonably close proves that it was the same PVP duel, not a separate PVP duel conducted with another individual after losing the match.

I feel that going forward, a fair screenshot policy should treat a screenshot provable across these factors as equal to a final-turn screenshot, as the only way to fabricate a screenshot like this would be with photoshop, at which point any screenshot can be faked.