(entropy) SirValimont 2 - 0 (aether) Toimu13 (No contest)

[Gocubbies1212]

people, whats done is done.  so stop complaining about it.  at least we know they will have 3 more discords and 2 black holes... 

[Sir Valimont]

I guess I don't really get why folks are so upset with Aether.

In my view, if you're not in first and you have to strengthen an opponent by sacrificing, you should strengthen the team for whom it makes the smallest difference. Strengthening another team close to Aether in the standings gives them a relative advantage that will hurt Aether more directly. No one in the middle of the pack should be worried about Entropy right now ... they should be worried about winning against other middle-of-the-pack teams so they can gain relative position and gradually advance, to take first place later.

The nature of War is to hemorrhage ... every battle there is a net loss of 24 cards. So by definition it makes a lot of sense to try to survive as long as possible. If Aether is more confident they can beat someone else by getting rid of these cards in a battle against Entropy (a battle they may feel less confident of winning), then it's definitely worth it for them to do so.

Lastly I will add: everyone's talking about Discords ... the fact is, we have so many Discords in our vault that the only way for us to run out would be us running out of total cards first. It's no mystery either ... just look how many we use per round (and we never use all of them). Aether's sacrifice helps us by 6 cards ... not much more than that. I think from an objective perspective it was a perfectly reasonable decision. We might not even salvage the Discords from this sacrifice. And I can almost guarantee we won't be taking the Black Holes.

[Gocubbies1212]

I guess I don't really get why folks are so upset with Aether.

In my view, if you're not in first and you have to strengthen an opponent by sacrificing, you should strengthen the team for whom it makes the smallest difference. Strengthening another team close to Aether in the standings gives them a relative advantage that will hurt Aether more directly. No one in the middle of the pack should be worried about Entropy right now ... they should be worried about winning against other middle-of-the-pack teams so they can gain relative position and gradually advance, to take first place later.

The nature of War is to hemmorhage ... every battle there is a net loss of 24 cards. So by definition it makes a lot of sense to try to survive as long as possible. If Aether is more confident they can beat someone else by getting rid of these cards in a battle against Entropy (a battle they may feel less confident of winning), then it's definitely worth it for them to do so.

Lastly I will add: everyone's talking about Discords ... the fact is, we have so many Discords in our vault that the only way for us to run out would be us running out of total cards first. It's no mystery either ... just look how many we use per round (and we never use all of them). Aether's sacrifice helps us by 6 cards ... not much more than that. I think from an objective perspective it was a perfectly reasonable decision. We might not even salvage the Discords from this sacrifice. And I can almost guarantee we won't be taking the Black Holes.

quoting this so we dont lose the vault info if he edits post. 

[Zeru]

We have less than 100 discords though ;/

[Sir Valimont]

We have less than 100 discords though ;/

If you round up to the nearest 100, we have 100.

[Xinef]

We have less than 100 discords though ;/

If you round up to the nearest 100, we have 100.

Or, if you add some quantum fluctuations to the equation, you could say that the nearer to Planck Time you quantize the measurements, the higher your probability of having >9000 discords. Quantum Physics ftw!

[EvaRia]

Okay, I'm just going to say something now to see if I can help clear some stuff up.

First of all, there were several reasons why we suicided against .

3 Main reasons:

1. Toimu13 randomly left. This means that we would be forced to sub the match. The most we could win if I subbed in this match is 3 cards.

2. Our vault was extremely strained. We had to suicide SOMEWHERE, or we would be forced to put a ton of dead cards in other decks, or even face having all of our decks illegal.

3. Entropy is the strongest team right now, and in terms of matchups, any type of denial deck that they decide to field against us will destroy us, regardless of what kinds of decks we could build. Looking at the deck they decided to use, there was essentially no way we could win. Even if we did play to win, we would have to build such a good deck that it wouldn't be worth it.

These 3 reasons together make up why we chose to suicide against entropy.

Then, the actual contents of the deck. I was busy the last day of deck-building, so I'm not entirely sure what happened. After looking through though, it seems to me like we ran out of time and just threw in whatever we had left. I see no discussion on the actual contents. I believe what happened was we decided what we were going to convert first (Bad move on our part IMO) and just put everything left into the suicide deck. I myself wasn't part of the decision, but it seems like we just ran out of time and it just happened.

Anyways, what's done is done, this is what happens whether you like it or not.
You can flame all you want, but honestly, nothing good is going to come from it.

Just about every post so far in this thread that disfavors the decision is more or less saying "This was a horrible situation, this was horrible strategy, Team Aether made a bad move."

As much as I hate the flaming, so far, I don't see anyone disagreeing. It was a team decision to suicide against entropy, but at the same time we know as a team that we made a bad choice of cards.

So, until someone steps up and honestly says that we made a good decision of cards to give away, I suggest we drop the subject, because there is no point in having an argument where everyone agrees.

[Dogg]

Or, if you add some quantum fluctuations to the equation, you could say that the nearer to Planck Time you quantize the measurements, the higher your probability of having >9000 discords. Quantum Physics ftw!

Actually, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle pairs up energy and time, so u cant actually say its valid when u pair up time and number of discords.
∆E∙∆t ≥ ћ/2
The multiplied variables in uncertainty principle must have the dimensions of the Planck constant. So what makes u sure that #of discords and time satisfy the principle?   

[Xinef]

Actually, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle pairs up energy and time, so u cant actually say its valid when u pair up time and number of discords.
∆E∙∆t ≥ ћ/2
The multiplied variables in uncertainty principle must have the dimensions of the Planck constant. So what makes u sure that #of discords and time satisfy the principle?   

Right... discords are more like work (changing one form of energy into another form of energy), rather than a form of energy by itself... though they could be approximated by 3 quanta of entropic energy, which satisfies the principle... I guess.

On the other hand, mass is equal to energy, and matter is a form of energy, so if discords were material, they would be a form of energy and thus possible to use in this equation. Though they are virtual, so they are more like a form of information. A form of entropy... so maybe there is some equation that pairs up Entropy and Time?

[ddevans96]

Great. Now this thread has turned into a debate on quantum physics. Great way to start my morning >.<

[Dogg]

Right... discords are more like work (changing one form of energy into another form of energy), rather than a form of energy by itself... though they could be approximated by 3 quanta of entropic energy, which satisfies the principle... I guess.

On the other hand, mass is equal to energy, and matter is a form of energy, so if discords were material, they would be a form of energy and thus possible to use in this equation. Though they are virtual, so they are more like a form of information. A form of entropy... so maybe there is some equation that pairs up Entropy and Time?

Well mass is not really equal to energy. It is when u use unit system where speed of light equals 1. In the system of reference where impulse of the particle is 0, E=mc² so when u take that c equals 1 u get E=m, but there is a big difference between mass and energy. Energy is a scalar parameter used as an easier description of interaction rather than force, while mass comes from the space-time symmetry as a quantum number describing Poincaré group representation classes. So u cant really identify matter and energy as the same, it is more of an approximation of sort (not literally).

And i don't think that u can really connect entropy and time since entropy is a value which represents the lack of information u have about the system itself and is statistical in nature so when calculating entropy u always assume that u are given infinite amount of time for the process itself to occur. So entropy and time probably cant be linked in an uncertainty relation. Entropy actually is not even a quantum observable, it is calculated as a macroscopic parameter of the entire system and that's kinda out of domain of quantum mechanics.   The only way to obtain entropy out of a quantum system is to use quantum statistical analysis but it will still be a macroscopic parameter.

And Entropy + Time decks sux anyway!

Great. Now this thread has turned into a debate on quantum physics. Great way to start my morning >.<

Sorry ddevans

[Xinef]

Right... discords are more like work (changing one form of energy into another form of energy), rather than a form of energy by itself... though they could be approximated by 3 quanta of entropic energy, which satisfies the principle... I guess.

On the other hand, mass is equal to energy, and matter is a form of energy, so if discords were material, they would be a form of energy and thus possible to use in this equation. Though they are virtual, so they are more like a form of information. A form of entropy... so maybe there is some equation that pairs up Entropy and Time?

Well mass is not really equal to energy. It is when u use unit system where speed of light equals 1. In the system of reference where impulse of the particle is 0, E=mc² so when u take that c equals 1 u get E=m, but there is a big difference between mass and energy. Energy is a scalar parameter used as an easier description of interaction rather than force, while mass comes from the space-time symmetry as a quantum number describing Poincaré group representation classes. So u cant really identify matter and energy as the same, it is more of an approximation of sort (not literally).

And i don't think that u can really connect entropy and time since entropy is a value which represents the lack of information u have about the system itself and is statistical in nature so when calculating entropy u always assume that u are given infinite amount of time for the process itself to occur. So entropy and time probably cant be linked in an uncertainty relation. Entropy actually is not even a quantum observable, it is calculated as a macroscopic parameter of the entire system and that's kinda out of domain of quantum mechanics.   The only way to obtain entropy out of a quantum system is to use quantum statistical analysis but it will still be a macroscopic parameter.

And Entropy + Time decks sux anyway!

Great. Now this thread has turned into a debate on quantum physics. Great way to start my morning >.<

Sorry ddevans

So you think you can baffle me with some quantum physics small talk stuff that I'm supposed not to understand, in order to prove that Time + Entropy decks aren't great?

...

Yeah, congratulations, you just did it. xD

But try mutated fate eggs, discord+rewind, or even chaos power dune scorps, and you'll see that mass equals energy.