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Offline AnneleTopic starter

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{Fire Soldier} Annele 3 - 2 Terroking {Earth Soldier} https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51978.msg1105468#msg1105468
« on: October 24, 2013, 04:56:35 am »
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Deck import code : [Select]
4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 590 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f6 5f6 5fa 5fa 5fb 5fc 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 5if 5v1 71a 74e 77g 77g 77g 8pm


We used 1 relic.

Game 1: Lost toss. First turn Mind Flayer which Terro countered with a second turn golem. Got arse the turn after. Topdecked a nightmare the turn before he could fractal. Right when I was getting optomistic, he stuck a dim + ea down. He won before the dim expired.
Spoiler for Hidden:

Game 2: Won toss. ONly one nova, but a first turn firemaster is cool hot. Managed to get lots of damage out, but with no way to bypass the dims, it was another loss.
Spoiler for Hidden:

Game 3: Won toss. First turn Mind Flayer again. Plenty of creatures play within the next few turns, leading up to the kill zone on turn 6. He played a dim though, so was left waiting a while. He failed to draw a second dim though, so it was wortht the wait!
Spoiler for Hidden:

Game 4: Lost toss. He quit, and I beat his AI. He couldn't have won anyway - the AI ran out of dims and never played a fractal.
Spoiler for Hidden:

Game 5: Won toss.
Desynced again. We both beat the AI. He didn't have a screenie though.
Spoiler for Hidden:

After this I was told that I had technically won, so I talked to terro about it. Eventually we agreed to play the last match.

Game 6: No novas in starting hand but topdecked one the next turn. Nice topdecks throughout the match lead me to the win.
Spoiler for Hidden:

I'm pretty sure that the lack of a screenie means that I win now. I have all the chat history if necessary, but it's the WM's decision.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 05:57:38 am by Annele »
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Offline dragtom

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Re: {Fire Soldier} Annele 3 - 2 Terroking {Earth Soldier} https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51978.msg1105491#msg1105491
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2013, 08:47:37 am »
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1st game:
I didn't play. Terro did, but I think he forgot to post.
be quick- time is quanta.

Offline Avenger

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Re: {Fire Soldier} Annele 3 - 2 Terroking {Earth Soldier} https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51978.msg1105529#msg1105529
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2013, 04:03:47 pm »
Yeah, it is difficult to play a valid match if the AI wouldn't fractal creatures. (Or doesn't pop grabbies for finishing kill).

Offline Blacksmith

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Re: {Fire Soldier} Annele 3 - 2 Terroking {Earth Soldier} https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51978.msg1105576#msg1105576
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2013, 08:17:00 pm »
Yeah, it is difficult to play a valid match if the AI wouldn't fractal creatures. (Or doesn't pop grabbies for finishing kill).
Yeah it' hard to tell if the ai plays the dim's pa correctly and if it plays fractal/dim at the right time. Game 4 and 5 is hard to judge, when did Terro leave in game 4?

I think warmasters have to take a look at this, unless Terro says it's all good. Also go :fire and good luck with other match  ;)!!
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 08:36:39 am by Blacksmith »
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Offline Terroking

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Re: {Fire Soldier} Annele 3 - 2 Terroking {Earth Soldier} https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51978.msg1105644#msg1105644
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2013, 02:43:53 am »
Yeah, it is difficult to play a valid match if the AI wouldn't fractal creatures. (Or doesn't pop grabbies for finishing kill).
Yeah it' hard to tell if the ai plays the dim's pa correctly and if it plays fractal/dim at the right time. Game 4 and 6 is hard to judge, when did Terro leave in game 4?

I think warmasters have to take a look at this, unless Terro says it's all good. Also go :fire and good luck with other match  ;)!!

No, it's not even close to good, and Annele wasn't supposed to post this >.>

Since Annele was the one who caused the disconnects, I really don't see how she gets the win for any of the matches where we played AI, especially since the match in most dispute I am almost certain to have won, since I had 2 copies of PA+Shield and fractals, which Fire's deck has no way to beat. The fact that I can't post a screenie should at worst lead to a replay. Anything less would seriously make me question the sportsmanship and morality of the rules/players involved. If the matchup wasn't so skewed in our favor I wouldn't be so adamant, but I'm playing a PA+Dims deck against a deck that, while fast, has no way to beat PA+Dims. Annele got very lucky to win 2 matches.
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Offline bripod

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Re: {Fire Soldier} Annele 3 - 2 Terroking {Earth Soldier} https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51978.msg1105657#msg1105657
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2013, 03:32:40 am »
Games 1,2,3 were played as normal games with clear winners and no desync's

Game 4 Started and was going well for a few turns and then desync'd and ITR and I told Annele to play the game out and get a screenie. (which she did with a win)   Terro chose to quit on his end and not play the AI.  Annele has posted that screenie.

Game 5 Just as above. Annele won vs AI and took screenie. Terro says he won but he can't provide screenie because he's not familiar with XP and he was also working on a presentation at the same time and copied something else into the clipboard before he saved the screenie.

Team Fire was trying to decide what to do at this point but the chatlog between Terro and Annele became a bit much for us. (yes, we have the chatlog)  I told Annele to make the post, bid you good night and best of luck for the rest of War, but she didn't... After some inner deliberation, she decided to play you one last time.

Game 6 Clear win for Annele with no desync.

So, Terro... of Games 4 and 5... which are you contesting?

Game 4? Where a 3 time Master, who's been in many Wars, neglected to simply play out a match vs AI and get a screen cap? (a common practice and something that's also mentioned in Section 3.5 of the rules)

or

Game 5? Where you were obviously so busy with a presentation, while you were playing an 'important' war match, that you (and your lack of knowledge for Win XP) couldn't even save a screenie mere seconds after you captured it?


1 Screenie... just 1 screenie and I'd say play it... but with back to back chances, you have no screenie.....





Best of luck to you and the rest of your Team in War, Terro.

Offline Terroking

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Re: {Fire Soldier} Annele 3 - 2 Terroking {Earth Soldier} https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51978.msg1105659#msg1105659
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2013, 03:59:03 am »
Game 4 Started and was going well for a few turns and then desync'd and ITR and I told Annele to play the game out and get a screenie. (which she did with a win)   Terro chose to quit on his end and not play the AI.  Annele has posted that screenie.

Game 5 Just as above. Annele won vs AI and took screenie. Terro says he won but he can't provide screenie because he's not familiar with XP and he was also working on a presentation at the same time and copied something else into the clipboard before he saved the screenie.

Team Fire was trying to decide what to do at this point but the chatlog between Terro and Annele became a bit much for us. (yes, we have the chatlog)  I told Annele to make the post, bid you good night and best of luck for the rest of War, but she didn't... After some inner deliberation, she decided to play you one last time.

So, Terro... of Games 4 and 5... which are you contesting?

Game 4? Where a 3 time Master, who's been in many Wars, neglected to simply play out a match vs AI and get a screen cap? (a common practice and something that's also mentioned in Section 3.5 of the rules).

or

Game 5? Where you were obviously so busy with a presentation, while you were playing an 'important' war match, that you (and your lack of knowledge for Win XP) couldn't even save a screenie mere seconds after you captured it?


1 Screenie... just 1 screenie and I'd say play it... but with back to back chances, you have no screenie.....

Best of luck to you and the rest of your Team in War, Terro.
Spoiler for Disclaimer:
For those of you who don't know me well, I do not argue without reason, and most of the time and not so vocal. I don't wheedle people over and over or punish them for the tiniest of mistakes, and I don't do any cheating of any kind ever, because that's simply not fair, and if I'm not fair, then what right do I have to ask you to be? But that's the thing. I am fair. I've forfieted many matches the rules didn't say I had to, and lost many to the rules when I should have won. I've never been anything but fair, and because of that, I do get the right to ask the same of you. After all, it's only fair.
Clearly, Annele has misinformed you about the nature of the match 4, or is confused. Since you were communicating with Annele throughout the process, you would know that well over 15 times I got into the PvP match while Annele didn't, so when it happened for the nth time that she timed out turn 1, why would I even make the attempt to play the AI? If the logic and rules we're following are such that I should have played the AI there, then I also should have played it all the times Annele was never in game, which is plainly stupid.

Again, with match 5, you are misinterpreting the chat log, deliberately or not. You may know that the match, due to all this frivolous and wasteful arguing, took well over 2 hours to complete, and kept me awake well past 1 AM. The match could easily have been done in 30-40 minutes max, without such time-wasting. And in fact, I am extrenely knowledgible about windows XP. My statement was that I would be able to retrieve the screenshot from my clipboard if I was using Windows XP, because it has a clipbrd.exe that allows you to do so, and my current operating system does not. Not sure why/how you turned that into what you did.

In addition to all this, I really don't mess around with screenies or forfieting of any sort in Elements. Never in all my years have I tried to claim the win from my opponent disconnecting, playing the wrong mark, failing to get a screenie, ect. It is just not the moral thing to do, in practically any scenario. The way Elements works, and I believe is meant to work, is that 2 players do clash strategically and do their best to win. Their play, and the RNG, decides the victor. No pictures, rules, or anything else. There are, essentially, 2 options:
A) The match is played out, and whichever side wins wins, and does so honestly and without any dispute.
B) If you guys really think you deserve this win, that you earned it with a smart counter deck and good play, then you can keep arguing and shoot for the dishonest win.

It's times like this that people get far too focused on the rules and forget the reason the rules exist in the first place; that is, to make things fair. If they are impeding that purpose, which is certainly the case if Fire is given the free win here, then I don't think we can call them good rules.
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Re: {Fire Soldier} Annele 3 - 2 Terroking {Earth Soldier} https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51978.msg1105660#msg1105660
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2013, 04:04:49 am »
It's times like this that people get far too focused on the rules and forget the reason the rules exist in the first place; that is, to make things fair. If they are impeding that purpose, which is certainly the case if Fire is given the free win here, then I don't think we can call them good rules.

This is why we discuss things BEFORE war. Once in place, the rules are the rules. Please feel free to voice your opinion in next years discussion.

Offline Blacksmith

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Re: {Fire Soldier} Annele 3 - 2 Terroking {Earth Soldier} https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51978.msg1105685#msg1105685
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2013, 08:36:00 am »
Games 1,2,3 were played as normal games with clear winners and no desync's

Game 4 Started and was going well for a few turns and then desync'd and ITR and I told Annele to play the game out and get a screenie. (which she did with a win)   Terro chose to quit on his end and not play the AI.  Annele has posted that screenie.

Game 5 Just as above. Annele won vs AI and took screenie. Terro says he won but he can't provide screenie because he's not familiar with XP and he was also working on a presentation at the same time and copied something else into the clipboard before he saved the screenie.

Team Fire was trying to decide what to do at this point but the chatlog between Terro and Annele became a bit much for us. (yes, we have the chatlog)  I told Annele to make the post, bid you good night and best of luck for the rest of War, but she didn't... After some inner deliberation, she decided to play you one last time.

Game 6 Clear win for Annele with no desync.

So, Terro... of Games 4 and 5... which are you contesting?

Game 4? Where a 3 time Master, who's been in many Wars, neglected to simply play out a match vs AI and get a screen cap? (a common practice and something that's also mentioned in Section 3.5 of the rules)

or

Game 5? Where you were obviously so busy with a presentation, while you were playing an 'important' war match, that you (and your lack of knowledge for Win XP) couldn't even save a screenie mere seconds after you captured it?


1 Screenie... just 1 screenie and I'd say play it... but with back to back chances, you have no screenie.....





Best of luck to you and the rest of your Team in War, Terro.
Well I don't really want to make a big deal out of this, but anyway.

The ai can't play Terros deck properl, it plays pa on dims on if if draws it the turn after otherwise it plays it on pends, it also plays dim's to early and it dosne't count the quanta so sometimes it plays fractal so that the turn after it's unable to play dims, also uses fractal incorekt using in on shrikers which is only bad compared to golems, especially since it borrows it. Therfore I think all the matches that went to a desync should result in a replay.

I'd also like to add that desync turn 1 is replay 95% of the times, especially if the ai can't play a deck properly. At this point I would say 2-2 and rm, but I'm not in charge here(thank god for that) and I hope this could be worked out. I'd suggest war masters to discuss this with both anelle and Terro in chat, let them explain what happened then take a brake and make a decision.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 12:57:53 pm by Blacksmith »
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Offline inthisroom

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Re: {Fire Soldier} Annele 3 - 2 Terroking {Earth Soldier} https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51978.msg1105703#msg1105703
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2013, 01:29:49 pm »
Sorry I couldn't be online earlier.

Annele's post seems correct to me, I was last online during the match and Annele and Terroking managed to play out 3 matches (2 won by Terro, 1 by Annele) the others were played out after desynchs, Annele provided win secreenies every time but Terro didn't, we nonetheless accepted to play an extra match when Terro did not provide a win screen (he said he lost it by mistake) because we didn't want to appear unsportsmanslike, and that match was won by Annele also.

To us, the win seems obvious, but I will accept any WM decision without further questionning.

Offline Blacksmith

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Re: {Fire Soldier} Annele 3 - 2 Terroking {Earth Soldier} https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51978.msg1105705#msg1105705
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2013, 01:41:49 pm »
Sorry I couldn't be online earlier.

Annele's post seems correct to me, I was last online during the match and Annele and Terroking managed to play out 3 matches (2 won by Terro, 1 by Annele) the others were played out after desynchs, Annele provided win secreenies every time but Terro didn't, we nonetheless accepted to play an extra match when Terro did not provide a win screen (he said he lost it by mistake) because we didn't want to appear unsportsmanslike, and that match was won by Annele also.

To us, the win seems obvious, but I will accept any WM decision without further questionning.
The only problem is that ai can't play deck properly, just to make it simple it's like letting an ai play an otk it's much easier to win then. Not saying it plays it that bad but at least it changes win rate drastically. But Like makk said, I will accept WM decision whiteout further questioning.
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Re: {Fire Soldier} Annele 3 - 2 Terroking {Earth Soldier} https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51978.msg1105711#msg1105711
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2013, 02:32:46 pm »
Sigh. Since I'm the only WM online...

Game 1 - Earth
Game 2 - Earth
Game 3 - Fire
Game 4 - XXX
Game 5 - Fire
Game 6 - Fire

If Earth had the screenshot, I'd rule G5 as a replay. Unfortunately, they don't, so this match is ruled 3-2, Fire.
The dogs of war are nothing compared to the cats.

 

anything
blarg: