[Fire] Hyroen 2 -1 [Master of Entropy] Zeru

[SteppingStone81]

To the testing chamber!

Let us know when you have a statistically significant sample size (probably on the order of 200++ games).  Thanks for running these test, btw!

[Kuross]

I did already congratulate Hyroen, who played brilliantly

The following was the closest you came to complimenting Hyroen but, as noted, it was not to him specifically, but to team Fire.

Your logic is very flawed.  The Fire deck had an Air mark; your deck did not have an Entropy mark.  Your deck should lose this matchup 60% of time.

This is utter nonsense. I will post testing results for your benefit later on.

No reason to turn this into an argument, anyone can clearly see Hyroen got lucky, but that's part of the game. Congratulations to team Fire.

However, keeping in context, I'd like to point out that the below spoilers are the preceding comments you made which clearly shows that the above 'compliment' is nothing more than complimenting to appease and not really meant in any way since it's clear you felt the win was unjustified due to probabilities. Simply put, you never complimented Hyroen for playing brilliantly, but just playing lucky. You can see how people would take what you say as arogant and condescending.

Great job hyroen.

The deck me and mojafa made actually worked.

It had no business working unless your plan was to get lucky. That deck is 30% to win against ours by my estimation. It auto-loses if Discord comes out first, or if Wings aren't drawn, or if Fahrenheit is too late, or if not enough quanta is drawn. Hyroen got lucky ... too bad for us that it happened in Round 3.

EDIT to add: a 30% win ratio translates to 21.6% likely to win a best-of-3.

It's not THAT luck based.  It was a calculated risk, but it payed off.

It's not luck based as deck design goes -- it's just that the only possible way to beat our Scorpion deck with it is to get very lucky. Right off the bat, it's simply impossible to win if Discord comes out before Wings, which it does a majority of the time. Let's examine:

You have 9 pendulums out of 32 cards in your deck, and Wings costs 4 Air Quanta.

We have 10 pendulums out of 30 cards in our deck, and Discord costs 3 Entropy Quanta.

Hyroen picked 3 pendulums and Wings both of the later games and Zeru did not get Discord out in time both games. Hyroen also got Fahrenheit early both games.

It's quite easy to lose with your deck in many other ways also, none of which happened: Not drawing enough quanta early, not drawing enough Wings, not drawing Fahrenheit are all ways you could lose. We usually run tests on lots of decks in our deckbuilding and strategy sessions; we will probably run your deck against ours several times to see what the win% is more exactly.

It's definitely frustrating to lose 24 cards including some that we need when we designed and chose the right deck to win. I guess that's just the way it goes. Luckily we have cards to spare.

You need to discard 18 this round, not 24, or are you counting those 6 you'd salvage there too? 

Yes, and since we consider Fire one of our toughest opponents it's really more like a 48-card loss on bad luck.

[Sir Valimont]

er ... Your intentions notwithstanding, I think this conversation was just fine before you derailed it Kuross ... If the people with whom the conversation was actually had are just fine, I'm not sure why you feel the need to be offended on their behalf. Can we proceed on topic? Or do you have an issue you need to discuss elsewhere, like via PM?

[Kuross]

I'm not derailing the thread nor am I feeling offended on anyone else's behalf, I am simply pointing out inconsistancies. Besides, I am not sure it's all that appropriate to try and scientifically disprove a valid win. All that does is lessen the win earned by Hyroen and rub it in for Zeru. All the testing in the world won't change the winner/loser for this round. I would just like to see the WAR progress in a positive and good sportsmanlike fashion.

[Daxx]

Let's get back to discussing the match in a civil manner, please.

[Sir Valimont]

I'm not derailing the thread nor am I feeling offended on anyone else's behalf, I am simply pointing out inconsistancies. Besides, I am not sure it's all that appropriate to try and scientifically disprove a valid win. All that does is lessen the win earned by Hyroen and rub it in for Zeru. All the testing in the world won't change the winner/loser for this round. I would just like to see the WAR progress in a positive and good sportsmanlike fashion.

How strange - I responded to this and somehow my browser told me the topic didn't exist for a second.

In any event, if you have constructive criticism please feel free to PM me Kuross. I don't think it's useful to go off-topic about sportsmanship here.

I will post statistics when I have them. Probably not for another day.

[Hyroen]

In respect towards me and Zeru, I'd ask that the discussion of my victory being based on luck finish at this pont.

The bottom line is that I won with a mix of luck, skill and a good deck.

Discussion of this any further simply discredits the win, and doesn't help either team. I realize that you are Team Entropy's Deckbuilder and we respect your talent. It's very possible that your deck would've won.

In any case, luck may have been on my side this time. Let it be known that Team Fire respects Team Entropy and their decbuilding skills, however any further discussing of the topic will reduce the respect that is held.

Thank you.

[Sir Valimont]

In respect towards me and Zeru, I'd ask that the discussion of my victory being based on luck finish at this pont.

The bottom line is that I won with a mix of luck, skill and a good deck.

Discussion of this any further simply discredits the win, and doesn't help either team. I realize that you are Team Entropy's Deckbuilder and we respect your talent. It's very possible that your deck would've won.

In any case, luck may have been on my side this time. Let it be known that Team Fire respects Team Entropy and their decbuilding skills, however any further discussing of the topic will reduce the respect that is held.

Thank you.

I'm sorry that Kuross' post encouraged you to feel this way. I think I made it clear several times already that your deck was well built and you played it perfectly.

Cheers,
Sir V

[ddevans96]

That is quite enough. Keep this thread on topic from here on.

[SnoWeb]

.......wow. Xinef used an EXACTLY the same discord/chaos dune scorps deck.

What did you two do, telepathy or something?

Did you notice this post from essence 4 days ago? http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,15358.msg209615#msg209615

Telepathy between 3 masters and you didn't received anything? What are the odds? 

[Sir Valimont]

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,15358.msg209615#msg209615

o_o We were completely unaware of this post when we designed our deck.

[SnoWeb]

o_o We were completely unaware of this post when we designed our deck.

I know - the 2 decks arrived almost at the same time. One by essence on the general forum and the other one on our secret board posted by you, I think. It's IMO a clear example of telepathy! 8)