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Offline maverixk

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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg405106#msg405106
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2011, 02:24:50 am »
What would be an alternate way of using reason and logic, if science were to be proved false?
Science is based off of reason and logic, not the other way around. If it was found that our current reason and logic were false, then we'd have to change our view of reason and logic towards the new finding. They haven't actually changed, but what we think they are have.
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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg405110#msg405110
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2011, 02:32:10 am »
The current scientific model is based off of what we perceive as logic. If it (science) were to be proved false, then everything we perceive now would be false as well.
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Offline maverixk

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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg405112#msg405112
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2011, 02:33:26 am »
The current scientific model is based off of what we perceive as logic. If it (science) were to be proved false, then everything we perceive now would be false as well.
...Yes. If everything we percieve now were to be proved false then that would suck for us, but Logic and reason have not changed, only our perception of it.
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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg405124#msg405124
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2011, 02:51:43 am »
What would be an alternate way of using reason and logic, if science were to be proved false?
Ever heard of Philosophy? It deals with knowledge both falsifiable and not.
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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg405126#msg405126
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2011, 02:56:47 am »
Philosophy, like science, is based on our current perception of logic, is it not?
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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg405133#msg405133
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2011, 03:07:45 am »
Philosophy, like science, is based on our current perception of logic, is it not?
Yes. Now you are closer to being on the same page as me. Imagine a world where no falsifiable truth existed. In that world Philosophy, Logic and Reason would work despite Science not working.
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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg408230#msg408230
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2011, 10:23:25 pm »
religion and science aren't mutually exclusive, and religion doesn't say that some things can't be explained, although some can't without going into the realm of paradoxes.
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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg408283#msg408283
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2011, 12:10:34 am »
To me, religion is more or less a set of good morals and good guide lines to be a "good" person (in contrast to what they, the religion either it be Judaism, christianism, etc. , consider "evil", "deviant" or "evil".) its simple as that, just some guidelines and morals.
That is the domain of wisdom.

Science is there to explain, teach and show what is, what could be and what has or never will be. It enlightens our path to the future and explains where we come from (all sciences together) and shows us the mistakes of our ancestors and their success so we can learn from their heritage and move forward as a society.
Science is the domain of intellect

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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg408305#msg408305
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2011, 12:34:15 am »
The only post that I read is the OP, so if I say something that has already been said, I apologize.

Short answer: Believing in religion is not forsaking science.  Believing in religion ALONE is forsaking science.

Bloodshadow.  You are in my opinion a very intelligent person based upon the body of your work here on the forums.  I read a lot of the topics here, but I don't often post.  It's things like this that lead me to action.  Religion is a complex thing.  One thing that I see from both atheists and believers alike is a loss of attention to detail.  Something that is often missed is that faith and science are not mutually exclusive.  Not all interpretations of faith are etiological in nature.  The scientific method is our primary tool for understanding the workings of the world around us.  It is however, still possible to believe in a religious creed and still use the scientific method and believe in its discoveries. 

I am a Christian, so to be fair to the other faiths I will only criticize some of the believers in my faith.  Feel free to cross-apply my arguments to other religions if they apply.  Some people in the Christian faith are fundamentalists.  They read the Bible as the only truth in the world.  These are the people who believe the world is 5,000 years old or so.  These are the people who ardently attack the teaching of the Theory of Evolution in the United States' public school system.  Their ideas do not reflect the core of the faith.  They easily forget that the authors of the Biblical books lived in times after scientific discoveries, the most basic of which was fire.  In their quest to invalidate science, they overlook that the Biblical authors were living in a time after its beginnings.

Some people on both sides have closed minded attitudes.  Bloodshadow, you appear to be angry at those on my side who have closed minded attitudes about science.  I personally however, have no problem accepting scientific advancements and believing in Jesus Christ.  I wish to work on fusion power when I get older and choose a career, and that obviously necessitates employing the scientific method.  I won't attempt to persuade you into believing in a religion.  That's an issue of your own faith or lack thereof, not my own.  I only wish that you see that faith and science aren't mutually exclusive.

Offline maverixk

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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg408311#msg408311
« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2011, 12:48:19 am »
Short answer: Believing in religion is not forsaking science.  Believing in religion ALONE is forsaking science.

Bloodshadow.  You are in my opinion a very intelligent person based upon the body of your work here on the forums.  I read a lot of the topics here, but I don't often post.  It's things like this that lead me to action.  Religion is a complex thing.  One thing that I see from both atheists and believers alike is a loss of attention to detail.  Something that is often missed is that faith and science are not mutually exclusive.  Not all interpretations of faith are etiological in nature.  The scientific method is our primary tool for understanding the workings of the world around us.  It is however, still possible to believe in a religious creed and still use the scientific method and believe in its discoveries. 

I am a Christian, so to be fair to the other faiths I will only criticize some of the believers in my faith.  Feel free to cross-apply my arguments to other religions if they apply.  Some people in the Christian faith are fundamentalists.  They read the Bible as the only truth in the world.  These are the people who believe the world is 5,000 years old or so.  These are the people who ardently attack the teaching of the Theory of Evolution in the United States' public school system.  Their ideas do not reflect the core of the faith.  They easily forget that the authors of the Biblical books lived in times after scientific discoveries, the most basic of which was fire.  In their quest to invalidate science, they overlook that the Biblical authors were living in a time after its beginnings.

Some people on both sides have closed minded attitudes.  Bloodshadow, you appear to be angry at those on my side who have closed minded attitudes about science.  I personally however, have no problem accepting scientific advancements and believing in Jesus Christ.  I wish to work on fusion power when I get older and choose a career, and that obviously necessitates employing the scientific method.  I won't attempt to persuade you into believing in a religion.  That's an issue of your own faith or lack thereof, not my own.  I only wish that you see that faith and science aren't mutually exclusive.
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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg408405#msg408405
« Reply #46 on: October 12, 2011, 03:19:20 am »
Don't you have to be a fundamentalist if you're to believe in religion completely?

If one believes in religion completely, then he or she would not even bother with science at all. There will be no need to find out how or why anything works, because a wizard God did all of it. Doesn't total faith make science pointless?
That's the exact attitude fundamentalists hold, isn't it?

Well, I guess this thread is kind of useless now. If I ask a fundamentalist to tell me why I should ditch science, he or she is likely to say "because it is the will of God" or something similar. It's not going to get anywhere...
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

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Re: Why should I forsake science and believe in religion instead? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31907.msg408425#msg408425
« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2011, 04:02:11 am »
To me, religion is more or less a set of good morals and good guide lines to be a "good" person (in contrast to what they, the religion either it be Judaism, christianism, etc. , consider "evil", "deviant" or "evil".) its simple as that, just some guidelines and morals.
That is the domain of wisdom.

Science is there to explain, teach and show what is, what could be and what has or never will be. It enlightens our path to the future and explains where we come from (all sciences together) and shows us the mistakes of our ancestors and their success so we can learn from their heritage and move forward as a society.
Science is the domain of intellect

One may have one without the other, but those who have both are truly those who should be known, reckoned and taken for examples of true citizens of modern society.
actually, science describes, it doesn't explain.

 

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