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Offline BluePriestTopic starter

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg112582#msg112582
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2010, 01:52:08 am »
heres some more
I CARE BECAUSE
the belief that a cosmic jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he cna remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree is STUPID when you look at it with COMMON SENSE
I CARE BECAUSE
ALL evidence in this argument discovered in teh last 2000 years shows religion is wrong

Could you cite this evidence? That way I can comment on it.
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Offline tyranim

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg112587#msg112587
« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2010, 01:57:42 am »
why do i care?Why does anybody care? First let me say i do not hate religious people just religions..
I CARE BECAUSE
1)history has shown and still shows today that whenever religion is put in any position of authority it abuses it.You get witch hunts, inquisitions, torture and dont say thats ancient history today saudi arabia still stones people to death and can arrest you for sorcery.
I CARE BECAUSE
2)there are 4800 or so religious sects on earth right now all claiming they know the one true path to salvation
I CARE BECAUSE
3)followers of any and all religions NEVER completely follow their holy books rules for example they want the ten commandmants visible in all schools yet love to watch football on sunday clearly violating "remember the sabbath day and keep it holy"by the way the penalty for this in the bible is death..so religious followers are LIARS when they say they do gods will..
I CARE BECAUSE
4)religion has and still tries to supress education and discovery...many countries still dont allow girls in school,people have been killed or tortured for showing others the truth...why?because the more humans learn about earth and the cosmos the less relevant and realistic religion becomes thus exposing their LIES
I CARE BECAUSE
5)religions allow people to believe the stupidest things and lose all abiilty to judge with common sense...examples half the world jewish population died in the holocaust yet they still believe in a kind compassionate god DUMB....Mormons adhere to a religion created by a man who 4 years earlier was in jail for FRAUD...DUMBER..i will gladly continue this but i know despite all the EVIDENCE and PROOF against religion believers just stay dimwitted walking towards their ever extinguishing light and for the record i dont disbelieve in a god i just believe its better to ask question then to pretend to have answers
its this kind of anti religion BS that i try to discourage...
my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard and they're like "its better than yours" damn right, its better than yours! i can teach you but i'd have to charge!

Offline oliby

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg112613#msg112613
« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2010, 02:54:26 am »
why do i care?Why does anybody care? First let me say i do not hate religious people just religions..
I CARE BECAUSE
1)history has shown and still shows today that whenever religion is put in any position of authority it abuses it.You get witch hunts, inquisitions, torture and dont say thats ancient history today saudi arabia still stones people to death and can arrest you for sorcery.
I CARE BECAUSE
2)there are 4800 or so religious sects on earth right now all claiming they know the one true path to salvation
I CARE BECAUSE
3)followers of any and all religions NEVER completely follow their holy books rules for example they want the ten commandmants visible in all schools yet love to watch football on sunday clearly violating "remember the sabbath day and keep it holy"by the way the penalty for this in the bible is death..so religious followers are LIARS when they say they do gods will..
I CARE BECAUSE
4)religion has and still tries to supress education and discovery...many countries still dont allow girls in school,people have been killed or tortured for showing others the truth...why?because the more humans learn about earth and the cosmos the less relevant and realistic religion becomes thus exposing their LIES
I CARE BECAUSE
5)religions allow people to believe the stupidest things and lose all abiilty to judge with common sense...examples half the world jewish population died in the holocaust yet they still believe in a kind compassionate god DUMB....Mormons adhere to a religion created by a man who 4 years earlier was in jail for FRAUD...DUMBER..i will gladly continue this but i know despite all the EVIDENCE and PROOF against religion believers just stay dimwitted walking towards their ever extinguishing light and for the record i dont disbelieve in a god i just believe its better to ask question then to pretend to have answers
Some of your statements are true, but I think some of them are inaccurate for the present time or narrow.

1. While religions have been the source of many horrendous events like you mentioned, so has secular movements. If I got my facts right, oppression in China is caused by a secular Communist party that is atheistic, and so was the Khmer Rouge. Religion may give bad ideas, but so can racism and extreme nationalism, which do not come from religion. Religious and atheistic people in authority are all equally capable of being a stain on humanity.

On the other hand, religion, as well as secular ideas, is capable of spawning noble causes. The American abolitionist and women rights movement were all started by evangelicals Christians.

2. Having many conflicting religions doesn't mean they're all worthless. Science has many conflicting ideas on how the universe started, how the dinosaurs died, or whether global warming exists. However, this doesn't make science obsolete.

3. Quite a few religions acknowledge that their followers will never be able to keep all the religious rules. That's why a good number of religion makes repenting of sins a main goal because being perfect is impossible. The followers of a religion are usually called to to do good, but it is acknowledged that doing so at all time is impossible.

As for watching football on Sunday, I'm not aware of any major Christian sects that have proclaim that watching TV on Sunday is a sin though Orthodox Judaism might have it as a sin. Religion change and is continually being reinterpreted. Your third statement might be true in the past, but is no longer true in most Christian sects. A lot of the things in the Old Testaments, such as death for various crimes, has been discarded.

4.  Without a doubt, there are those who use religion to stifle knowledge, but the religion has been some of the greatest advocate of scientific knowledge.

Many point to Galileo's persecution as proof of religious intolerance of science. Yet, the truth is more complex. I quote from Rice University's Galileo project, "During a court dinner, in 1611, at which Galileo defended his view on floating bodies, Barberini (Pope Urban VII) supported Galileo against Cardinal Gonzaga ... Upon Barberini' s ascendance of the papal throne, in 1623, Galileo came to Rome and had six interviews with the new Pope. It was at these meetings that Galileo was given permission to write about the Copernican theory, as long as he treated it as a hypothesis." It should be noted that Urban VII was also Galileo's patron, which meant he funded Galileo's research and publications, which includes saying that the Earth revolves the Sun. While Church politic lead to the Inquisition, it would seem that the pope at the time agreed with Galileo but was unable to help.

The same was with Copernicus who came up with the notion that the Earth revolves around the Sun. Cardinal Nikolaus von Schönberg, Archbishop of Capua wrote this to Copernicus, "Some years ago word reached me concerning your proficiency, of which everybody constantly spoke. At that time I began to have a very high regard for you... For I had learned that you had not merely mastered the discoveries of the ancient astronomers uncommonly well but had also formulated a new cosmology. In it you maintain that the earth moves; that the sun occupies the lowest, and thus the central, place in the universe... Therefore with the utmost earnestness I entreat you, most learned sir, unless I inconvenience you, to communicate this discovery of yours to scholars, and at the earliest possible moment to send me your writings on the sphere of the universe together with the tables and whatever else you have that is relevant to this subject ..." practically begging Copernicus to share his views about the Earth's movement. When Copernicus hesitated, the Cardinal Nikolaus von Schonberg and Tiedemann Giese convinced him to publish his De revolutionibus orbium coelestium, explaining the planetary movement. Pope Paul III even had it dedicated to to himself, shielding Copernicus from much criticism. The source for this can be found here with some fascinating text written by Copernicus. http://www.webexhibits.org/calendars/year-text-Copernicus.html

5. The question of why suffering exist if God is benevolent is one that I still question. I've heard many theories for it, and haven't been satisfied with any yet.

6. As for your later post, it must be understood that the Bible is not literal in all instances. For example, most Christians would probably not claim that the story of the Good Samaritan occurs literally, but that it was used to convey a message. Another example is that the Catholic Church no longer believes that the story about the creation of the world in seven days should be taken literally. A theory put out by the church says that the seven days used to create the world can be interpreted as seven ages or simply a long period of time, because a day for God could be eons for the material world.

Most importantly if we are to assume that God is all powerful and omnipotent as some religion says, then science can not prove or disprove the existence of religion. An example is that I work in a pharmaceutical lab. The countless bacteria cells that I work with will never know that I'm observing their lives. They simply don't have the mind to comprehend my presence and action in their lives. If God is all powerful as some religions says, then our science will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of God.

kalkiran

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg112786#msg112786
« Reply #51 on: July 12, 2010, 10:32:37 am »
@ iampostal: you certainly are take a good look at Oliby's words, he said it much better than i ever could.

iampostal

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg114406#msg114406
« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2010, 04:46:46 pm »
heres some simple ones for evidence blue priest..the world...is not flat...the earth goes around the sun,,,disease is caused by germs...prayer neither helps nor hinders and is therefore completely inneffective when studied...people are not witches...or possessed by daemons...jesus was not from nazareth as the town was built  about 100 years after his death... and im sure your well aware of the countless historical inaccuracies when put to the test  when crossreferenced by roman greek egyptian historical records....society benefited from breakthrough in surgery and it did not cause the catyclismic downfall of man as was predicted  it would...society did not self destruct when bibles were attainable for everyones reading nor just the clergy as was law...but remeber even as rational thought tears downs religious tenets one by one theburden of proof is on you to show us soemthing where there is nothing seen...and id readily ask what evidence/prove you have beyond your faith  which is nothing more than something that allows smart people to believe stupid things and commit evil acts

iampostal

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg114410#msg114410
« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2010, 04:49:49 pm »
oh and this bit...well this is what christianty is by definition...this is what you believe..this is what if someone else told you was fact would cause you to laugh at the person and get them to the funny farm....but because its religious its inanity is accepted?wow
the belief that a cosmic jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree

Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg114852#msg114852
« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2010, 04:40:11 am »
He really likes that urban dictionary, doesn't he?

Since you're so keen on reference materials, postal, here's one you should consider using:
http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/department/docs/punctuation/node00.html

Artois

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg114953#msg114953
« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2010, 09:23:53 am »
He really likes that urban dictionary, doesn't he?

Since you're so keen on reference materials, postal, here's one you should consider using:
http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/department/docs/punctuation/node00.html
Johan, behave.  That's a cheap shot!

kalkiran

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg114978#msg114978
« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2010, 11:45:39 am »
are any of his 19 posts not a rant?

Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg114998#msg114998
« Reply #57 on: July 15, 2010, 12:46:13 pm »
Quote
Johan, behave.  That's a cheap shot!
But SO worth it.  ;)

Offline ratcharmer

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg115100#msg115100
« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2010, 04:32:59 pm »
It is something of a cheap shot, but grammar would be very helpful in this case, as I admit I can't even tell what postal is saying in his last 2 posts . . . not try to be insulting here I'm just saying that I am sincerely having trouble understanding postal's posts.

About the only statement I could make sense of was the claim that Nazareth wasn't built until 100 years after Jesus was supposed to have lived.
The problem I see with this is that we have transcripts of the New Testament (The Dead Sea Scrolls) that have been dated to within 70 years of Jesus' life. It makes no sense that a book claiming Jesus was from Nazareth could have been written before the city existed.

I think the problem postal (or whoever he/she is citing) has run into here is that most historical dates more than about 1000 years ago are estimates, some being more accurate than others. If you compare dates given in different sources on any historical event they will not match up.

Try to remember that Christianity did not just suddenly appear 10 years ago with the claim that 2000 years ago Jesus was crucified. The first people who had to be convinced Jesus was who he says he was in order for the Christian religion to form were around at the time Jesus was. Given that it is extremely difficult to form an argument that Jesus didn't exist.

Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg115474#msg115474
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2010, 10:04:49 pm »
Quote
It is something of a cheap shot, but grammar would be very helpful in this case, as I admit I can't even tell what postal is saying in his last 2 posts . . . not try to be insulting here I'm just saying that I am sincerely having trouble understanding postal's posts.
I don't think it's a cheap shot.  He made himself a pretty big target, and it wasn't unsportsmanlike.  :D

But there's one on every forum, sigh.

 

anything
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