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Innominate

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg99987#msg99987
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2010, 02:26:11 pm »
I don't really care what consenting adults believe. I may think they're wrong, or even find their beliefs ridiculous, but unless their beliefs are obviously dangerous I have no problems with them, with two exceptions. Firstly, I will not pass up the opportunity for debate; when people struggle to explain their ideas and come out victorious (in their opinion), they have stronger, clearer beliefs, so debate is good for everyone. Secondly, I absolutely and unequivocally reject the idea that parents can indoctrinate their children into a religion. I can't really affect their decision, but every person I turn away from religion is somebody who will (probably) not raise their children in that religion.

In my opinion, raising a child to believe something which is not in any way corroborated by scientific evidence (and in many cases is actually disproven by it) is equivalent to child abuse. If you raised a child to believe that stepping on the cracks in the pavement would cause a man to jump out and rape them to death, it would be child abuse. If you teach them that - unless they believe that a man written about in gospels of unknown authorship over 2,000 years ago is the son of god - they will burn in hell-fire for all eternity, nobody says a thing.

Offline BluePriestTopic starter

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg99993#msg99993
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2010, 02:37:39 pm »
I don't really care what consenting adults believe. I may think they're wrong, or even find their beliefs ridiculous, but unless their beliefs are obviously dangerous I have no problems with them, with two exceptions. Firstly, I will not pass up the opportunity for debate; when people struggle to explain their ideas and come out victorious (in their opinion), they have stronger, clearer beliefs, so debate is good for everyone. Secondly, I absolutely and unequivocally reject the idea that parents can indoctrinate their children into a religion. I can't really affect their decision, but every person I turn away from religion is somebody who will (probably) not raise their children in that religion.

In my opinion, raising a child to believe something which is not in any way corroborated by scientific evidence (and in many cases is actually disproven by it) is equivalent to child abuse. If you raised a child to believe that stepping on the cracks in the pavement would cause a man to jump out and rape them to death, it would be child abuse. If you teach them that - unless they believe that a man written about in gospels of unknown authorship over 2,000 years ago is the son of god - they will burn in hell-fire for all eternity, nobody says a thing.
I agree with debate where appropriate. I love debating about just about anything, as to your second part, I just made a topic in inspiration of that
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,8620.new.html#new
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Malduk

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg99994#msg99994
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2010, 02:39:50 pm »
People are boring, they do not respect each others beliefs, and think they know everything about the world, even if the topic they are speaking about is completely beyond them. Oh and also, it is soooo not cool to believe in the same stuff your grandma believes.

Truth is there is absolutely no way to prove or disprove theory of absolute which some like to call God.

There is one funny thing though... In old times, having masses worshiping gods was a great way of mass control. Today, having masses worshiping gods is getting in the way of capitalism. People are sheep, whether they are atheist or believers.

My personal favorite type of atheist: "I'm atheist because I'm so individual that I read many many books written by other people, and now I have my own views that are completely the same as views of millions of other people".

SeddyRocky

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg100181#msg100181
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2010, 06:09:34 pm »
People are boring, they do not respect each others beliefs, and think they know everything about the world, even if the topic they are speaking about is completely beyond them. Oh and also, it is soooo not cool to believe in the same stuff your grandma believes.

Truth is there is absolutely no way to prove or disprove theory of absolute which some like to call God.

There is one funny thing though... In old times, having masses worshiping gods was a great way of mass control. Today, having masses worshiping gods is getting in the way of capitalism. People are sheep, whether they are atheist or believers.

My personal favorite type of atheist: "I'm atheist because I'm so individual that I read many many books written by other people, and now I have my own views that are completely the same as views of millions of other people".
And do you consider yourself to be a shepherd? That condescending view that your seem to have can't be easy to bear.

splen

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg100229#msg100229
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2010, 07:10:22 pm »
"Why do you care?"

There are places where a sick child is attended to, not by qualified medical help, but by community members standing around performing a ritual of laying of hands, or chanting, or praying in the name of deity X when medicine is in a cabinet just a few feet away.

There are people who are stuck with a bad lot in life and rather than work hard to fix it, they choose to kneel down and pray for intervention from some god.  There are people who, in the face of hard science, still choose to believe the Bible as quite a literal, instead of allegorical, slice of history.  I could go on here, but you get the point.

Individually, nothing I ever say or do will change those people's minds or beliefs.  It won't happen.  And I'm fine with that because all their Bible thumping won't do the same for me*.

So here's why I care.  Because those people get elected to local offices that become state positions that become federal jobs as Senators and Representatives.  These people are on school boards, city councils, and are my neighbors.  They will teach my child, perhaps be my boss, and I may be theirs as well.  No amount of effort short of living as a hermit will allow me a life not around people who have beliefs different from mine.  Either I learn to deal with it or I become very miserable and cynical.  Like I said before, I won't change, they won't change, nobody is going to change their long-held beliefs.  So rather than fight what won't change, why not get a better understanding so that we can find more common ground to agree on than nits to pick.  Perhaps they can see that 'heathens' such as myself can be just as virtuous and 'good' even though I don't parade around with a cross dangling from my neck and likewise, I can see that people I think are blinded by faith can have common sense and reason.  We learn more when we can include more.

So that's why I care and enjoy discussing religion.


*I am a Christian (or optionally 'Christocentric') Deist -- I believe that our universe was created by a God who does not interfere, intervene, nor specifically cares how individuals lead their lives.  Son of this god or not, the teaching of Jesus that became the basis for Christianity are a good basepoint from which to determine how you live your life.  This is not to say all points of Christianity are good nor does it say that other religious beliefs don't have merit, it's just a starting point, and that this creator gave each person the gifts of reason and intelligence enough to form their own beliefs.

Malduk

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg100308#msg100308
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2010, 08:42:08 pm »
People are boring, they do not respect each others beliefs, and think they know everything about the world, even if the topic they are speaking about is completely beyond them. Oh and also, it is soooo not cool to believe in the same stuff your grandma believes.

Truth is there is absolutely no way to prove or disprove theory of absolute which some like to call God.

There is one funny thing though... In old times, having masses worshiping gods was a great way of mass control. Today, having masses worshiping gods is getting in the way of capitalism. People are sheep, whether they are atheist or believers.

My personal favorite type of atheist: "I'm atheist because I'm so individual that I read many many books written by other people, and now I have my own views that are completely the same as views of millions of other people".
And do you consider yourself to be a shepherd? That condescending view that your seem to have can't be easy to bear.
Easy answer: no.

SeddyRocky

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg100381#msg100381
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2010, 10:18:58 pm »
Ok, so it's just depressing ^^

Purity_Riot

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg100398#msg100398
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2010, 10:40:53 pm »
My opinion on all of this is that people need to realize that unless your an autotheist, than you require some amount of faith, as nothing is 100% fact. Religion or Science, you've got to have faith to believe.

SeddyRocky

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg100413#msg100413
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2010, 10:55:38 pm »
My opinion on all of this is that people need to realize that unless your an autotheist, than you require some amount of faith, as nothing is 100% fact. Religion or Science, you've got to have faith to believe.
No kidding? :) But I do agree with your general assessment.

finkel

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg100482#msg100482
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2010, 01:05:17 am »
Responding to the OP (didn't read thread, sorry): If somebody discriminates unfairly towards gays, blacks, etc. because of their religion, I care.

kalkiran

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg107205#msg107205
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2010, 10:10:44 pm »
i discuss because im interested in other peoples viewpoints-i would like to learn about other religions and atheism aswell-i dont respect people who hate religion or theists who hate atheists. In this day theres is a much more equal balance between theists and atheists. This often leads to conflict as both sides feel oppressed. ie there is a pressure on them to be one way or another.
now a forum can be an outlet, or a catalyst. I think what your trying to get at is a forum should be the first one yes? if so i agree.
(btw i belong to neither as im not the oppressed group anyway)
There was a science fiction story written by philip.k.dick who i think was trying to make the same point as i am now...ill find it...
also @ Innominate most people dont teach them about hellfire but about love for god and the love god gives you. and if a religion teaches you to disregard some science facts it wont really affect them that much-if they grow up without morals(which can be difficult for some people without religion) it will.

Offline ratcharmer

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Re: Why do you care? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8588.msg109295#msg109295
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2010, 08:51:34 pm »
Bluepriest, using stereotypes and generalizing does not aid your cause. Atheists (I belong to that group as I have not found a religion which I can 100% fully believe in and stand for, and thus I choose not to be affiliated with any at all) are divided. Every single one of us is an individual, just as every single theist is an individual. The difference being that atheists do not have a shared base of faith (eg: All Christians worship Christ, all Hindus believe in karma) which would mean that generalizing would be even less accurate.

If you wish for respect, give it and you shall receive it? (This goes for both sides of course).

Religion is a delicate subject and often people try to argue and convince people with firm stances that will not budge in any way (once again, both sides). Personally, I believe that you don't have to agree with a persons stance but that does not mean that the person lacks valid points. If an argument gets too off topic, it might be because people try to find common ground, or try to avoid it :D

And lastly: It is the Internet. And we are on a mystical/fantasy game site, not Christian Science Monitor. So people here are probably less prone to theism.
Not to seem rude, but there does seem to be some conflict between the two sections I've underlined.

Also I think you've sort of missed the point Bluepriest is trying to make. Even in threads that are not remotely controversial, such as Jmizzle's thread about Christian musicians, there's always at least one person who comes into the thread, announces themselves as an atheist, and either starts an off-topic discussion or begins trying to disprove all religion.

Why is this? It seems like an unusual phenomenon and this isn't the only site I've noticed it at either.

 

anything
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