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Other Topics => Off-Topic Discussions => Religion => Topic started by: Blacksmith on July 26, 2016, 10:15:33 pm
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I grew up in a secularized country, in a secularized family and has never even been close to believe in any god or religion. Considering all the information and facts we know today I can't really understand how one can truly believe in any of the big religions. That's why I'm asking the question, I just want to understand you.
Since I know questions like this often/always lead to discussion I want you to include one thing in your answer: Either add a :chroma and show that people are free to question your reasons , or add a :rainbow showing that you don't want people to question you. Also feel free to ask me stuff.
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I believe in my religion due to its philosophy, dogma and because that's my choice. :)
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I'm christian, in part because I was raised that way, I'm certain, but also in part because I believe in much of the teachings and, ultimately and most importantly, I believe in the existence of God. :chroma
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I am mostly the same as Naesala. I was raised Christian, but even after taking a Religions class, none of the other main big religions that we learned about really clicked as something that I could believe in.
And as far as being atheist versus being religious, I just really can't bring myself to believe in the Big Bang theory and other atheist explanations for how the world came to be. Think of it in the same way an atheist can't bring themselves to believe that there is a God or higher being of some sort.
I suppose I'll put a :chroma in.
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i don't identify myself with any religion, even if soon i will have the Pope at 20 miles from me in his summer residence (and his even easy to attack for isis, we are all a little bit scaried, specially after today for what happened in france); living in the most christian place in the world, make u think a lot on how much religion is wrong and contradictory.
rome is full of souvenir shops, full of bar that make u pay a bottle of water 5 euro, god only know how much houses are property of the vatican, giant terraced house and outside the gate of these there are homeless from other country that are here because they are escaped from war. There is not religion in this, the vatican is autonomous as a country.
i started religion as a school subject when i was 5 years old, i've made the holy communion and the chrismation, pretty much wasting 1 hour/week for 5 years hearing how much was wrong what i learned in religion class (i'm not kidding), but i'never believed in a single word; my dad is pretty much """christian""", my mom believe in God, without caring about christianity, and they never want me to go in church or other things, they pushed me to go chatechism because u can't marry without the chrismation.
i am 24 years old, and pretty much any my contemporary is like me, without a religion; if u are born after 1990 in italy, u aren't christian; nowadays a lot of newborns aren't christened, a lot of marriage are civil, from some years a lot of peoples ask for the deletion of baptism (we are at 50k, growing), with a dedicated site on this
but still, gay marriage is an utopia, but we don't stop fighting for this (even if i am not gay).
i read a little bit about every religion, if i was born in asia i will probably be buddhist, it's the only religion that makes some sense for me, not for the dalai lama or buddha, but is really a "relaxed religion", but at the same time is full of good teachings.
nice wot, feel free to ask me anything :chroma
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I'm christian, in part because I was raised that way, I'm certain, but also in part because I believe in much of the teachings and, ultimately and most importantly, I believe in the existence of God. :chroma
^ THIS. :chroma
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I don't think "because I believe in god" is a good answer to the question. Why do you then believe in god?
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Whether or not you believe in God, it's usually what feels right that people believe in, not what they can logically explain. For example, on the flip side many non-religious people wouldn't be able to very well answer why they think there can't be a God.
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Whether or not you believe in God, it's usually what feels right that people believe in, not what they can logically explain. For example, on the flip side many non-religious people wouldn't be able to very well answer why they think there can't be a God.
Maybe for some people, but this is not the case for me. I am a Christian, and though I grew up in the church, I re-evaluated my beliefs and - aside from the fact that my parents taught it to me - I came to the conclusion that I believe Christianity is true. There are a lot of things that I believe point to its truth, but the two that stand out to me the most are these:
- Creation. I believe that God created the heavens and the earth. Looking at the scientific evidence, I think it takes just as much (if not more) faith to believe that all the things that needed to happen in order for life to exist came by coincidence. The odds are so heavily against it, it's pretty ridiculous. While I understand why people would only believe what they can see and rely on that extremely slim chance over believing in an unseen supernatural being, I think it is more likely that creation had a creator.
- Experiences. Through the evidence of my own life and the lives of those around me, I believe that God certainly exists in the form expressed in the bible. I've seen so many lives changed after coming to believe in Jesus that I can't ignore it. In fact, I believe that even if Jesus never existed, the way of life that the bible recommends/commands is going to be the best possible one for me and (probably) anyone else. It's counter intuitive to our nature to put others first and to choose love, truth, compassion, humility, and self-sacrifice over selfishness, pride, lust, and even something as seemingly innocent as love without truth (doing or saying what you think they want rather than what you know is best). In addition, I've seen such a huge difference in how easy it is to actually live the way God commands with and without a relationship with him (actively practicing spiritual disciplines like prayer, bible reading, scripture memory, meeting with other believers, etc).
This just touches the surface of why I believe in God (and Jesus), but it's a start. But for certain, I don't believe because of my feelings or because I'm taking a leap of faith in an area that reason and logic contradict. Rather, I believe that reason and logic and scientific evidence tend to point to the God of the bible.
:chroma
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- Creation. I believe that God created the heavens and the earth. Looking at the scientific evidence, I think it takes just as much (if not more) faith to believe that all the things that needed to happen in order for life to exist came by coincidence. The odds are so heavily against it, it's pretty ridiculous. While I understand why people would only believe what they can see and rely on that extremely slim chance over believing in an unseen supernatural being, I think it is more likely that creation had a creator.
Let's say that you're right on that point, and existence as a whole was created. Why must it be one as described by the Bible or any other text? Why that particular one, and not some other culture's God(s); if there is a creator or creators, does it necessarily follow that they match what is described in the Bible or any other arbitrarily chosen set of beliefs? If we look at it from another angle, then my question is what are the odds that we have all chosen the right deity to follow, or the right values to dedicate our lives to? Are not the odds of you picking out the exact actual Creator from all those that may exist astronomically small as well?
As for your point about experience, I don't deny that religion can grant comfort or a sense of meaning, or other positive social goods. But is it only people who believe in the Bible that reap those benefits? Do not the followers of Hinduism or Buddhism get as much fulfillment as monotheists do? I don't doubt that there are people who convert to Christianity and find their lives better off for it. But I don't believe it is the only set of beliefs that can create that effect, and I think you'd be hard pressed to say otherwise.
As for my own personal views, a quick wikipedia search brings me to 'apatheism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism)' which apparently describes not caring about the existence or non-existence of gods, which sums it up pretty nicely. In other words, I think religion is irrelevant to my personal needs, lifestyle, philosophy, etc. To me, the idea of spending time to worship or "commune with God" is strange, just as ancestor worship, nature worship, or polytheism must seem strange to the average modern christian. I don't understand is how the existence of a creator (or creators!) necessitates worship. :chroma
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I believe in my religion due to its philosophy, dogma and because that's my choice. :)
Thank you for answering!
Sounds valid to me. However could you go a bit deeper on this one. I guess not all philosophy and dogma is equally relevant to you in your belief. What religion do you believe in?
I'm christian, in part because I was raised that way, I'm certain, but also in part because I believe in much of the teachings and, ultimately and most importantly, I believe in the existence of God. :chroma
Thank you for answering!
That you was raised up in a religious family explains why you started to believe in a religion, but what made you stay with it? What teachings has been crucial for you to stay with your religion?
I am mostly the same as Naesala. I was raised Christian, but even after taking a Religions class, none of the other main big religions that we learned about really clicked as something that I could believe in.
And as far as being atheist versus being religious, I just really can't bring myself to believe in the Big Bang theory and other atheist explanations for how the world came to be. Think of it in the same way an atheist can't bring themselves to believe that there is a God or higher being of some sort.
I suppose I'll put a :chroma in.
Thank you for answering!
So what in the Christianity teachings was crucial to you in your believe that the others didn't have?
Atheist or people that has studied the universe has always existed. And as time passes their theories and tools has become better and so have their description of the world. The theories are all based on evidence that suports them and just a single evidence against it can change it completely.
So if you can't believe in the current theory about how the world came to be, perhaps you will find one in 50 years to be more likely. If you do will you then become an atheist or will you stay with your religion? Is the explanation of how the world was created a key part in your belief?
About your view that seeing the big bang theory in the same way as atheist view the existence of God. The major difference is that there aren't any proves of gods existence while there are several that suports the Big bang theory. Therefore I don't really think you can view them in the same way? or am I wrong?
i don't identify myself with any religion, even if soon i will have the Pope at 20 miles from me in his summer residence (and his even easy to attack for isis, we are all a little bit scaried, specially after today for what happened in france); living in the most christian place in the world, make u think a lot on how much religion is wrong and contradictory.
rome is full of souvenir shops, full of bar that make u pay a bottle of water 5 euro, god only know how much houses are property of the vatican, giant terraced house and outside the gate of these there are homeless from other country that are here because they are escaped from war. There is not religion in this, the vatican is autonomous as a country.
i started religion as a school subject when i was 5 years old, i've made the holy communion and the chrismation, pretty much wasting 1 hour/week for 5 years hearing how much was wrong what i learned in religion class (i'm not kidding), but i'never believed in a single word; my dad is pretty much """christian""", my mom believe in God, without caring about christianity, and they never want me to go in church or other things, they pushed me to go chatechism because u can't marry without the chrismation.
i am 24 years old, and pretty much any my contemporary is like me, without a religion; if u are born after 1990 in italy, u aren't christian; nowadays a lot of newborns aren't christened, a lot of marriage are civil, from some years a lot of peoples ask for the deletion of baptism (we are at 50k, growing), with a dedicated site on this
but still, gay marriage is an utopia, but we don't stop fighting for this (even if i am not gay).
i read a little bit about every religion, if i was born in asia i will probably be buddhist, it's the only religion that makes some sense for me, not for the dalai lama or buddha, but is really a "relaxed religion", but at the same time is full of good teachings.
nice wot, feel free to ask me anything :chroma
Thank you for sharing your view on religion and how the religion is seen at in Italy.
About the "deletion" of batism. What exactly is the goal with that website?
I'm christian, in part because I was raised that way, I'm certain, but also in part because I believe in much of the teachings and, ultimately and most importantly, I believe in the existence of God. :chroma
^ THIS. :chroma
Thanks for sharing Krzy.
I guess the same questions apply to you that I asked to Nae.
Whether or not you believe in God, it's usually what feels right that people believe in, not what they can logically explain. For example, on the flip side many non-religious people wouldn't be able to very well answer why they think there can't be a God.
Thank you for sharing.
Yeah I guess this is an important part of it. Feelings and emotions is what make you stick with something, and perhaps not always what is most rational to do.
Whether or not you believe in God, it's usually what feels right that people believe in, not what they can logically explain. For example, on the flip side many non-religious people wouldn't be able to very well answer why they think there can't be a God.
Maybe for some people, but this is not the case for me. I am a Christian, and though I grew up in the church, I re-evaluated my beliefs and - aside from the fact that my parents taught it to me - I came to the conclusion that I believe Christianity is true. There are a lot of things that I believe point to its truth, but the two that stand out to me the most are these:
- Creation. I believe that God created the heavens and the earth. Looking at the scientific evidence, I think it takes just as much (if not more) faith to believe that all the things that needed to happen in order for life to exist came by coincidence. The odds are so heavily against it, it's pretty ridiculous. While I understand why people would only believe what they can see and rely on that extremely slim chance over believing in an unseen supernatural being, I think it is more likely that creation had a creator.This is a thing you could write a book about. I will try to explain the reasons why I believe in the official scientific explanation of earth.
Earth has existed for about 4.5 billion years. Life on earth has existed for about 2 billion years. There's been several experiments where scientist have tried to recreate the condition on earth before life existed. The experiments has been runed in labbs 24/7 until a certain dates where the scientist study the outcome. After a few months they discovered several of the same life forms that are among the oldest on earth today. So in fact they did create life. So with the given condition the chance of life starting on earth is more likely than unlikely. Then we have the evolution theory that explains how life evolves. How the best adapted speeches survives and while less adapted speeches are extinct. Adapting to the current environment is whats moving the evolution forward and not random coincidence. The odds that the evolution had taken the exact turn it has taken for us to exist is ridiculously small, just like you say, however the odds that another life form would have started to exist instead is ridiculously high.
- Experiences. Through the evidence of my own life and the lives of those around me, I believe that God certainly exists in the form expressed in the bible. I've seen so many lives changed after coming to believe in Jesus that I can't ignore it. In fact, I believe that even if Jesus never existed, the way of life that the bible recommends/commands is going to be the best possible one for me and (probably) anyone else. It's counter intuitive to our nature to put others first and to choose love, truth, compassion, humility, and self-sacrifice over selfishness, pride, lust, and even something as seemingly innocent as love without truth (doing or saying what you think they want rather than what you know is best). In addition, I've seen such a huge difference in how easy it is to actually live the way God commands with and without a relationship with him (actively practicing spiritual disciplines like prayer, bible reading, scripture memory, meeting with other believers, etc). I agree that many of the teachings in the bible and other key parts of other religions are rules of human everywhere and through all times. And I'm glad if people are able to improve their lives with the suport of religion. However how you interpenetrate the bible may vary from person to person. And if the bible was the on true teaching wouldn't the bible be for everyone, taking love between the same sexes as a example?
And lastly, I believe that most people could make common rules that applies to everyone, everywhere and any time. We are all humans and we aren't that different. If I made a book about how people should live their life that applies to everyone, would that then be a motivation for you to believe in a supernatural being? For me it's something that many people could do, and not something we need a higher being to help us with. So ultimately that several people made a book that applies to many people, in many different countries and in different times is not a motivation for me to believe in something supernatural.
This just touches the surface of why I believe in God (and Jesus), but it's a start. But for certain, I don't believe because of my feelings or because I'm taking a leap of faith in an area that reason and logic contradict. Rather, I believe that reason and logic and scientific evidence tend to point to the God of the bible.K
:chroma
Thank you for sharing Uta. Questions in orange.
As for my own personal views, a quick wikipedia search brings me to 'apatheism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism)' which apparently describes not caring about the existence or non-existence of gods, which sums it up pretty nicely. In other words, I think religion is irrelevant to my personal needs, lifestyle, philosophy, etc. To me, the idea of spending time to worship or "commune with God" is strange, just as ancestor worship, nature worship, or polytheism must seem strange to the average modern christian. I don't understand is how the existence of a creator (or creators!) necessitates worship. :chroma
Thank you for sharing your none religious view points!
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I'm christian, in part because I was raised that way, I'm certain, but also in part because I believe in much of the teachings and, ultimately and most importantly, I believe in the existence of God. :chroma
Thank you for answering!
That you was raised up in a religious family explains why you started to believe in a religion, but what made you stay with it? What teachings has been crucial for you to stay with your religion?
Well, several different things have, at various points in my life, helped the fact. My mom's told me about a miracle that she witnessed. My struggles with suicide for which I've somehow managed to survive gives me faith. When I was in highschool, I liked the idea of Pascal's wager, which I expanded to encompass all major religions and still found Christianity most worth believing in. And my need for an answer for "why is the universe the way it is: why are the laws o physics what they are?" point most to a creator god. Combined with several teachings, and personal moments of feeling in touch with god, I feel that god exists, which is a roundabout series of answers for the question you didn't ask. The answer to the question you asked, why I stay, is because I believe in the Christian God. Since I believe in God, there is no reason for me to not be Christian and stay with it. If I were faced with hard enough evidence to sway me, I could become atheist or another religion, but I don't see that happening.
To be clear about another thing, since we're on the topic of religion, I'm very low-key and non-denominationally Christian. I don't like churches, I'm not keen on big religious gatherings, and I don't pray often. My faith is what I believe to be true, and little more. My morals primarily come from other sources, and I believe much of the bible is outdated, mistranslated, misinterpreted, and so on.
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The humanity always searching answers for the creation, the first thing we noticed is that all of this and so immensely architected that could only be done by a being far superior
however God don't show to us... what is a great problem to validate any religion, but definitely I can't believe how science explains things, have a lot of fails and lack, The Universe actually nobody knows how it came about, we are likewise unable to imagine an end to Universe, imagine the infinite, however at the same time we have a great difficulty to understand how one space can be infinite...
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- Creation. I believe that God created the heavens and the earth. Looking at the scientific evidence, I think it takes just as much (if not more) faith to believe that all the things that needed to happen in order for life to exist came by coincidence. The odds are so heavily against it, it's pretty ridiculous. While I understand why people would only believe what they can see and rely on that extremely slim chance over believing in an unseen supernatural being, I think it is more likely that creation had a creator.
This is the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy, with a little of the law of large numbers thrown in. You're looking at it as if life was an end goal that everything was leading towards, and you're acting as if human life as we know it were somehow special or significant. Neither of these are safe assumptions.
There are a very large number of planets in the universe and the universe has been around for a very long time. There's no reason to assume that we are in any way special.
Or, to put it another way, it's the difference between hearing that Alan Smith of Warwickshire has won the lottery and saying "Oh my God! But the chances against that are 14 million to 1! It's a miracle!" and realising that with the number of people who play the lottery, someone wins almost every week. The point being that had it not been Alan who won but instead Stephanie Davis of Berkshire you'd still be saying "Oh my God! But the chances against that are 14 million to 1! It's a miracle!".
If the Earth were different, if the laws of physics were different, it'd be just as significant a sequence of events as those that led to us.
To take it even further, what you're actually doing is making an argument for a deterministic universe, governed by a God who micromanages absolutely everything. Think how much faith it must take to believe that, right from the beginning of the universe to now, all the things that happened to cause me to type this sentence happened by coincidence! That can't be true, right? I mean, I had to be a fan of this game. I had to join the message board and read this thread. Before that, computers had to be invented. My parents had to meet. The particular sperm and egg which created me had to come together. And so on, all the way back to the beginning of the universe.
And God would have to micromanage everything. That sentence would convey exactly the same meaning had there been a "just" in front of the "think". And yet there isn't. What are the chances of that being a coincidence? Astronomical, by the thinking you're describing.
If you can see why a micromanaged deterministic universe doesn't really make sense, then I hope you can see why your reasoning about the existence of life doesn't actually imply a creator.
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There's been several experiments where scientist have tried to recreate the condition on earth before life existed. The experiments has been runed in labbs 24/7 until a certain dates where the scientist study the outcome. After a few months they discovered several of the same life forms that are among the oldest on earth today. So in fact they did create life.
That is 100% untrue.
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There's been several experiments where scientist have tried to recreate the condition on earth before life existed. The experiments has been runed in labbs 24/7 until a certain dates where the scientist study the outcome. After a few months they discovered several of the same life forms that are among the oldest on earth today. So in fact they did create life.
That is 100% untrue.
It's basically this experiment. It has been done several times after that with similar results. Perhaps I worded my first post a bit badly, they did not create life just basic things that is needed for life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment
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It's basically this experiment. It has been done several times after that with similar results. Perhaps I worded my first post a bit badly, they did not create life just basic things that is needed for life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment
That is true, but maybe not as significant as you perhaps think. Firstly because we don't know that the gaseous mixture used in that experiment actually reflects the atmosphere of Earth at the time of abiogenesis and, indeed, it's now believed that it doesn't.
Secondly because it's not the only explanation for the existence of amino acids on Earth. Amino acids have been found in nebulae, on comets, and on meteorites. They didn't need to form on Earth at all in order to exist here.
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Recently in my country we had the census. I put down my religion as "mildly agnostic" :P.
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first of all if there's a god then i don't think he's showvup on a tv show and talk about how he made the universe i'm a chriten and i'm growing in one it could be ignorence anyways what the hell will happen when i die two things will happen one.i will be judged by god or two.i will become a ghost or third.nothing will happen my life will not continue exsiting(btw i don't see how saying hell in this context is bad it's called fear.
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sorry for miss types
blarg: