What is good? Why be good?

[Boingo]

I'm curious to hear lines of reasoning without invoking religious principles for:
1) what is good?
2) why should a person be good?

It might also suffice to provide an argument for generally accepted guiding principles like "Thou shall not kill" or "Thou shall not steal" without using an authoritative God as a backbone for the argument (i.e., you can't just say "because God said so.")

[xdude]

There's no such thing as good or bad. What's good for some one is bad fore somebody else.

[Artois]

What is Good?

That is interesting. 

An example of selfless help:  helping newbies build better decks.  It doesn't help you, as they might use them to beat you PvP.  However, YOU feel better about yourself for helping them.

What is Bad?

Mocking newbies for making flawed decks, and then gloating or patronising them with your fountain of knowledge.  You feel superior, but not necessarily better.

Why should you be good?

Because your mum told you too, so did your nan & grandad, and they know best 

[Xinef]

What is good?

For me it's something very close in meaning to love. If something is performed with love, it most likely is good. If something does not involve love, it's hard for it to be good. Of course I'm not speaking of 'romantic' love, but rather this more general meaning of 'feeling the need to make other people happy' and a lot more than that.

Why be good?

One reason is that it makes you happy too. Another reason is that it helps other people to be good to you. Third reason is that even if other people kill you, at least you were good

[Boingo]

Of course, I'm simplifying here, but so far it seems the explanations for what is good:
1) something that helps another person
2) something that makes you feel happy about yourself
3) something that fills a need you have to make another feel happy

And why be good?
1) it makes you feel happy
2) someone told me to do it

Is goodness or the reason(s) to be good really about self-gratification then?  Is it nothing more than hedonism dressed up in pretty clothes?

[Artois]

How about this...

Goodness is taught to us and learnt through observed behaviour and societal influences.  We copy these 'good' behaviours as we learn that they benefit ourselves, both directly and indirectly.  Further, these good behaviours not only benefit ourselves, but society in general, as another good person in the group is always a benefit to the group as a whole (probably).

[Xinef]

If you are asking for reasons 'why should a person be good?' then the answers might depend on whether you ask for the reason/sense of being good, or the cause/advantages of being good.

If you want to explain why being good is... good, then the answer might be different than the answer to a question 'why should a person be good' because this second question usually leads to persuading the said person that being good is better, that it has many advantages, that not being good might have consequences etc.

Basically one question is about reasons, the other about persuasion.

If I were asked the first question, I'd say that good/love/God make sense and bad/hate/atheism logically have no sense, so good is a reason by itself, while bad is not. It's hard to explain, but basically having sense/reason requires sanity. There is no sense/reason without sanity. And I believe that good has sanity by itself, because good is God himself. So good has a reason. Bad has no sanity, so it cannot have a reason.
This explanation without referring to God would be like referring to football without referring to ball, so I guess if I were to meet your request for no such reasoning I'd have to say nothing at all. But that's basically because I believe there is no such thing like reason/sense without God, so asking about reason would be unreasonable. Of course if you do not agree, simply ignore this paragraph.

If I were asked the second question, my answer is three posts above. You asked for no reference to God, ok. This question can be answered without reference, because it's not asking about reasons, so the answer does not have to make sense. It only has to persuade a person to be good.

I hope anyone understands what I meant, because I only vaguely understand myself

[Artois]

I'd say that good/love/God make sense and bad/hate/atheism logically(?) have no sense, so good is a reason by itself, while bad is not.

Where did this come from?  Why is atheism illogical and/or bad?

I've never seen an atheist suicide bomber, but that doesn't make all religious people evil... deluded and irrational maybe 

[Xinef]

I'm not talking about atheists but atheism. Also, sorry for placing it in a row with generally negatively perceived words, it might look as if I were saying that atheism is bad, but I rather mean that if we assume there is no God, then bad and hate become neutral, because there is no reason why they would be bad.

My bad

And I'm not saying atheism is illogical. I'm saying that logically it has no sense. So I mean that logical reasoning leads me to a conclusion that it has no sense. If it was illogical, then it would mean that it is out of logical reasoning.

[Artois]

I'd say that good/love/God make sense and bad/hate/atheism logically have no sense

The statement is so irrational, and deeply unintelligent that it is very hard to take anything else you write seriously.

[Xinef]

Ok, if you did not notice, I added a little clarification to my post above while you ninjaed me.


Anyway, I do agree that my statement might have not been worded correctly to express what I really mean. I'm talking about reason/sense in philosophical meaning, not logical meaning. I just used some logical reasoning to come to philosophical conclusions.

I might try to clarify that statement.

A living person might have his reasons and sense because he is a sane being. If we assume God exists, then it leads to logical conclusions that God also has sanity and has his reasons and sense. Religion tells that good and love are part of the God, so they also have sense and reason.
Now, no matter if God exists or not, concepts such as bad and hate do not have reason or sense because they have no sanity. Unless you somehow assume they do have sanity.

That's what I meant. I hope this clarifies my statement a little bit.

[Artois]

Fair enough Xinef... maybe we can both agree that satan worshippers are bad 

Are there reasons when doing something hateful or bad, might be for the common good?

Can it be said that a soldier is sane when he hatefully throws a grenade into the evil enemy tank?

Could it be that sometimes the less kind act is also the better, and therefore more 'good' act in the long run?

Ohhh... we need a philosophy professor fast!!