What do you believe?

[theloconate]

I'm a Philosopher. I believe our main faculty is reason and through reason and only reason can we acquire Truth. Truth separates belief and opinion from "reality" (truth).
One argument i encourage anyone to read would be the Kalam Cosmological Argument. I think it's simple yet amazing and is irrefutable in my opinion.

Kalam is irrefutable? really? First off even if Kalam was irrefutable it wouldn't prove god but merely a creator. Second of all, the law of cause and effect only applies within our universe (like time and gravity) so you cannot apply the law of cause and effect to the universe. Even if you somehow manage to get around that there is still the fact that you need to provide evidence that the law of cause and effect would apply to the universe and not to god (which is impossible to demonstrate). I have to wonder, have you even searched for any of the easily found responses to Kalam?

[EmeraldTiger]

i guess i will chime in here. I was raised a baptist but my experiences have shown me that there is more beyond the limitations of any one religion. I know I have come in contact with unseen spirits on several occasions. At one time I had Psychic link with a friend and knew each time something was wrong. I have also discovered the existence of parasitic spirits.
I believe that some part of me has lived before several times. I have discovered how to interpret personality chakras*. i feel a spirit told me how to do that. I do think life did not come into existence by chance, something more than a few amino acids joining together happened. One thing i discovered about myself is , if i drink vodka with mixed a highly caffeinated soda I become more psychic and empathic. This very revealing of me. On a side note when doing a reading for the personality chakras* if the person i'm reading is suffering from depression The Answers usually come out false.

* the spelling is wrong but i don't know the correct spelling

i feel that i was overlooked because of your previous discussion

[Uppercut]

First of all, I never trusted the guy. Second of all, do you have any christian friends?

This really depends on how you're defining friends. I have people I might casually refer to as friends who happen to be Christian, some Muslims even, but they're not really close friends or anything. They're more like friendly acquiantances.

What about where the bible says you can strike slaves as long as they dont die immediatly (exodus 21:20-21)?

Thats actually really mild compared to some of the stuff God says to do in Leviticus.

I don't consider myself in any political category, however I am not stupid enough to let my bigotry exclude people simply because there are things in their holy book that don't live up to modern standards. I also don't have the stupidity to say that because their holy book says something there can't be moderate people in that religion that adhere to secular values.

I'm not excluding anyone from anything. They should still have all the same rights I have. I'm just choosing to not associate with someone in the same you'd choose to not associate with a known child abuser.

Not to mention you simply asserted that it says that without providing which passage.

2:225, 66:2, and 16:106. Also related are 3:54 in which Allah is referred to as a schemer, and 3:28 where it says to not befriend non-believers. If a Muslim asks for your friendship and you're not a Muslim you shouldn't accept it because his very religion tells him that befriending you is a bad thing.

[theloconate]

First of all, I never trusted the guy. Second of all, do you have any christian friends?

This really depends on how you're defining friends. I have people I might casually refer to as friends who happen to be Christian, some Muslims even, but they're not really close friends or anything. They're more like friendly acquiantances.

Sweet

What about where the bible says you can strike slaves as long as they dont die immediatly (exodus 21:20-21)?

Thats actually really mild compared to some of the stuff God says to do in Leviticus.

True say

I don't consider myself in any political category, however I am not stupid enough to let my bigotry exclude people simply because there are things in their holy book that don't live up to modern standards. I also don't have the stupidity to say that because their holy book says something there can't be moderate people in that religion that adhere to secular values.

I'm not excluding anyone from anything. They should still have all the same rights I have. I'm just choosing to not associate with someone in the same you'd choose to not associate with a known child abuser.

^ I feel like muslims are hated way more then they deserve

I consider myself a liberal, at least in regards to most things however I don't have the stupidity to trust someone who's religion tells them to lie to unbelievers for personal gain and then kill them.

This really depends on how you're defining friends. I have people I might casually refer to as friends who happen to be Christian, some Muslims even, but they're not really close friends or anything. They're more like friendly acquiantances.

wait what?

Not to mention you simply asserted that it says that without providing which passage.

2:225, 66:2, and 16:106. Also related are 3:54 in which Allah is referred to as a schemer, and 3:28 where it says to not befriend non-believers. If a Muslim asks for your friendship and you're not a Muslim you shouldn't accept it because his very religion tells him that befriending you is a bad thing.

Cool

[theloconate]

i guess i will chime in here. I was raised a baptist but my experiences have shown me that there is more beyond the limitations of any one religion. I know I have come in contact with unseen spirits on several occasions. At one time I had Psychic link with a friend and knew each time something was wrong. I have also discovered the existence of parasitic spirits.
I believe that some part of me has lived before several times. I have discovered how to interpret personality chakras*. i feel a spirit told me how to do that. I do think life did not come into existence by chance, something more than a few amino acids joining together happened. One thing i discovered about myself is , if i drink vodka with mixed a highly caffeinated soda I become more psychic and empathic. This very revealing of me. On a side note when doing a reading for the personality chakras* if the person i'm reading is suffering from depression The Answers usually come out false.

* the spelling is wrong but i don't know the correct spelling

i feel that i was overlooked because of your previous discussion

Alright. Unfortunately personal experiences don't count (we can induce them on people without anybody coming and calling spirits or whatever to them). If you still have that psychic link (or any of that psychic stuff you mentioned) then you should go to a proper scientist and have it tested so you can win 1 million dollars from the james randi foundation for having demonstrated spirits and whatnot scientifically. Unless you're gonna provide any evidence for any of this we don't really have much to discuss

[Uppercut]

i feel that i was overlooked because of your previous discussion

I actually thought you were joking because of the mixed drinks bit.

[EmeraldTiger]

i will start a new thread in the main section of Off-Topic Discussions dealing with the personality thing.

[Bloodshadow]

I'm a Philosopher. I believe our main faculty is reason and through reason and only reason can we acquire Truth. Truth separates belief and opinion from "reality" (truth).
One argument i encourage anyone to read would be the Kalam Cosmological Argument. I think it's simple yet amazing and is irrefutable in my opinion.

According to quantum mechanics, nothing is real until observed (e.g. light is a particle or a wave depending on the way you observe it). Quantum mechanics has been scientifically proven to be true. Thus, objective truth does not exist; the only things that exist are our subjective perceptions.

On Kongregate I once tried to convince a guy that you can't prove clouds exist objectively. We know clouds exist because we've seen them every day of our lives. However, in the perspective of a rat that had lived its entire life in the sewers, it had never seen clouds. Thus, to the rat, clouds do not exist.

Of course, if this is true, then nothing is real. Everything we've known, learned, and discovered could all be a lie. Which is part of the reason why I don't think existence has a meaning or purpose.

[theloconate]

I'm a Philosopher. I believe our main faculty is reason and through reason and only reason can we acquire Truth. Truth separates belief and opinion from "reality" (truth).
One argument i encourage anyone to read would be the Kalam Cosmological Argument. I think it's simple yet amazing and is irrefutable in my opinion.

According to quantum mechanics, nothing is real until observed (e.g. light is a particle or a wave depending on the way you observe it). Quantum mechanics has been scientifically proven to be true. Thus, objective truth does not exist; the only things that exist are our subjective perceptions.

On Kongregate I once tried to convince a guy that you can't prove clouds exist objectively. We know clouds exist because we've seen them every day of our lives. However, in the perspective of a rat that had lived its entire life in the sewers, it had never seen clouds. Thus, to the rat, clouds do not exist.

Of course, if this is true, then nothing is real. Everything we've known, learned, and discovered could all be a lie. Which is part of the reason why I don't think existence has a meaning or purpose.

If I understand you correctly, if we can't see it, it doesn't exist. Is that an accurate representation of your views on the matter?

[Bloodshadow]

If I understand you correctly, if we can't see it, it doesn't exist. Is that an accurate representation of your views on the matter?

Pretty much.

No, please don't ask me why bacteria and atoms exist if I can't see it. The truth is, we have seen bacteria and atoms, using microscopes. Everything we know, we have proven through observation and experiments.

[theloconate]

If I understand you correctly, if we can't see it, it doesn't exist. Is that an accurate representation of your views on the matter?

Pretty much.

No, please don't ask me why bacteria and atoms exist if I can't see it. The truth is, we have seen bacteria and atoms, using microscopes. Everything we know, we have proven through observation and experiments.

Dude. There are plenty things that we know exist but have never seen (like air), we can observe their effects but we can't see it directly. It's pretty close minded to state that if we can't see it it doesn't exist (and completely bogus). After all its not like bacteria didn't exist until we built microscopes able to see them

[OldTrees]

From my understanding of Quantum theory (not much) it states that the act of observing changes what observations can be made. Furthermore just because photons act like particles and act like waves does not mean they are either. Both are just models that we use to describe reality.

Actually from quantum theory we can conclude that things exist before we observe them otherwise observation would be impossible.


To answer the topics question:
I am a open minded person to the point that I tried/trying a thought experiment of imagining as many ethical systems as possible. (I could/can not be perfectly objective this time but maybe some future time)

My beliefs that I am coming back to are as follows:
1) There exists Truth.
2) The Truth is impossible to know due to the possibility that we could be wrong always existing.
3) Agnostic
4) There exists a Moral Truth (ie Right and Wrong)
5) Immoral acts possible but not inevitable
6) Moral acts are possible but again not inevitable
7) The Moral Truth defines Right and Wrong by Rules (such as but not necessarily "Murder is wrong")
8] Nothing exists with an inherent moral obligation to cease to exist
9) It can be permissible to own things. --long argument--> We own our time.
10) Libertarian