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Artois

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Re: Was Jesus the son of God? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6523.msg104719#msg104719
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2010, 06:26:38 pm »
The pursuit of knowledge is the original sin?  Worrisome, in that it implies that only the ignorant can find god?!

Offline Belthus

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Re: Was Jesus the son of God? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6523.msg104746#msg104746
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2010, 06:44:33 pm »
The original sin was eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. If you have no concept of right and wrong, you can't be a moral or immoral person. You would be like an animal or an insane person - unable to understand rules. Of course, the paradox is, if you don't have any knowledge of good and evil, how do you know that it's wrong to disobey God?

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Re: Was Jesus the son of God? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6523.msg104778#msg104778
« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2010, 07:24:07 pm »
The pursuit of knowledge is the original sin?  Worrisome, in that it implies that only the ignorant can find god?!
 Disobeying God was the original sin. They knew all they needed to know, all the tree did was give them lustful thoughts and the like. Hence one of the first things that they noticed was that they were naked. Nakedness itself isnt a sin. It is the lust that being naked brings.
Knowledge can lead to sin, and God knew that they would not be able to handle that knowledge.
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Artois

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Re: Was Jesus the son of God? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6523.msg104937#msg104937
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2010, 10:22:40 pm »
The pursuit of knowledge is the original sin?  Worrisome, in that it implies that only the ignorant can find god?!
 Disobeying God was the original sin. They knew all they needed to know, all the tree did was give them lustful thoughts and the like. Hence one of the first things that they noticed was that they were naked. Nakedness itself isnt a sin. It is the lust that being naked brings.
Knowledge can lead to sin, and God knew that they would not be able to handle that knowledge.
A life without lust seems pretty bland, its almost as if God wanted us to be 'stepford wifes'!  Seriously though, how would we breed and continue life, without a bit of lustfulness?

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Re: Was Jesus the son of God? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6523.msg104943#msg104943
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2010, 10:29:24 pm »
The pursuit of knowledge is the original sin?  Worrisome, in that it implies that only the ignorant can find god?!
 Disobeying God was the original sin. They knew all they needed to know, all the tree did was give them lustful thoughts and the like. Hence one of the first things that they noticed was that they were naked. Nakedness itself isnt a sin. It is the lust that being naked brings.
Knowledge can lead to sin, and God knew that they would not be able to handle that knowledge.
A life without lust seems pretty bland, its almost as if God wanted us to be 'stepford wifes'!  Seriously though, how would we breed and continue life, without a bit of lustfulness?
There was no need for breeding in that time because there was no death, and there was no need for breeding because of that, there was just perfect harmony. All life was within the garden of eden a perfect place.

And i know, how could it be perfect with free will and man sinning yada yada yada. I said it so that no one else had to :P
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Re: Was Jesus the son of God? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6523.msg105068#msg105068
« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2010, 01:57:52 am »
A life without lust seems pretty bland, its almost as if God wanted us to be 'stepford wifes'!  Seriously though, how would we breed and continue life, without a bit of lustfulness?
Who needs lust when you've got love?  It's a very poor substitute.
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PhuzzY LogiK

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Re: Was Jesus the son of God? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6523.msg105194#msg105194
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2010, 04:58:04 am »
There was no need for breeding in that time because there was no death, and there was no need for breeding because of that, there was just perfect harmony. All life was within the garden of eden a perfect place.

And i know, how could it be perfect with free will and man sinning yada yada yada. I said it so that no one else had to :P
Do you believe this as the actual truth?  Or do you believe it as a story?

Artois

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Re: Was Jesus the son of God? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6523.msg105268#msg105268
« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2010, 08:37:24 am »
A life without lust seems pretty bland, its almost as if God wanted us to be 'stepford wifes'!  Seriously though, how would we breed and continue life, without a bit of lustfulness?
Who needs lust when you've got love?  It's a very poor substitute.
Love without Lust is just like+1. 

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Re: Was Jesus the son of God? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6523.msg105389#msg105389
« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2010, 12:08:19 pm »
A life without lust seems pretty bland, its almost as if God wanted us to be 'stepford wifes'!  Seriously though, how would we breed and continue life, without a bit of lustfulness?
Who needs lust when you've got love?  It's a very poor substitute.
Love without Lust is just like+1.
Disagree.  Lust is craving sexual intimacy and nothing more.  You can lust for someone you've never met, for example just from a picture in a magazine or on the internet.  As for love, I'm not referring to the playground "I love chocolate" to emphasize how much you like it.  Love is much deeper than that since you consider the person himself/herself as part of your affection and not simply as an outlet for sexual gratification.  However, you do not need lust to enjoy sex.  With love you can desire to be closer to a person including sexual intimacy.

Lust is just "like -1" since you can do it all by yourself.
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kalkiran

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Re: Was Jesus the son of God? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6523.msg105828#msg105828
« Reply #57 on: July 01, 2010, 09:30:13 pm »
is this an elaborate joke on the karma system?

Offline ratcharmer

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Re: Was Jesus the son of God? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6523.msg116136#msg116136
« Reply #58 on: July 16, 2010, 04:32:31 pm »
So, jumping back to the original post in this topic . . . I have to admit I'm a little confused.

You've cited examples of multiple cultures separated by thousands of miles, who all tell a very similar story about God. How is this evidence against the existence of God?

It seems to me that if you're getting the same story from multiple unrelated groups, then it's likely there's something to that story.

PhuzzY LogiK

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Re: Was Jesus the son of God? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6523.msg116663#msg116663
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2010, 08:02:12 am »
So, jumping back to the original post in this topic . . . I have to admit I'm a little confused.

You've cited examples of multiple cultures separated by thousands of miles, who all tell a very similar story about God. How is this evidence against the existence of God?

It seems to me that if you're getting the same story from multiple unrelated groups, then it's likely there's something to that story.
I think you're looking at this the wrong way.  It's not evidence against the existence of god, it's against the uniqueness of christ.  And you're exactly right: if everyone has "the same story from multiple unrelated groups", and yet christ came from only ONE of those groups, what makes him so special?

Christ was just the next step in a progression of belief over thousands of years.  Watch this short video over the history of the middle east, and pay attention to where Israel would be: http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf (http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf)

Notice that the region of Israel was either in contact or conquered by every empire around it?  Look at how deities progressed:

1.  Osiris (Egypt), Tammuz (Sumerian), Adonis (Greek) - These gods were essentially super humans.  They possessed human emotion, and acted in ways a mortal would (i.e., they are not moral guides), but had far greater powers.  They interacted with humans, and cities or groups usually picked a god as their protector/provider (such as in the Illiad).  The Hebrew Yahweh acts much like this.  The three gods listed here also have tales of dying and being born again.

2.  Marduk (Babylonian/Assyrian) - Marduk is one of many gods, but comes to rule over the others (after taking power from his father), and becomes a supreme cosmic ruler.  This is a step towards monotheism.

3. Zoroaster (Persian) - A big one here, Zoroaster, who was of this world, introduces a cosmic battle between good and evil.  Further, Zoroastrianism is one of the first large scale examples of an eschatological religion; not only would evil one day be vanquished and the struggle brought to an end, but each person's acts in their lifetime would effect them after death.

4. Mithras (Roman) - Not much is concretely known about Mithras, but I think it's fairly uncontested that he existed in this world (though likely before humans), and made a sacrifice to save the world (a bull, rather than himself).

At that point you've pretty much reached the time of Jesus.  Notice how he takes a little from each of these?  Odd that these different beliefs came from all over, but a region that was occupied by all those cultures over time managed to have all of the aspects, isn't it?  Look at the Bible:

In the Old Testament (around the time of the gods in 1), god regularly talks and interacts with humans.  He is petty and full of wrath, and curses the children of those who oppose him.  He acknowledges other gods' existence and fights them.  He protects the Hebrews in battle and decimates cities.  He is only concerned with his chosen people.  He changes his mind based off of the actions of humans.

In the New Testament (around the time of Mithras), god is a supreme cosmic ruler.  He sends his son to be a part of the world.  His message is for all people, rather than just a few.  His morality is gentler.  His message is of love, and how to live a good life.  Satan is his enemy (cosmic), rather than other nations.  He is concerned with the end of time and the life after.

So, is christianity a revelation of the truth, or just another progression in religion?

 

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