Seeing the Similarities

[ZaIn]

Right, so one of main ideas of most religions is the idea that you should be good person, and I think that most of us can accept that.  For example, 6 of the ten commandments relate to this (I think).  We see in the Buddhist Religion that the concept of "Karma," or doing a good dead, will be rewarded. So why is it we see conflict both between religions, between different ideas in the same religion, and between the Religious and Non-religious people?  In short, why can't we all get along?

If we can all agree that we should be good people, why does it matter if we think there's a god, gods, flying spaghetti monster of lack of any thereof?

Just wondering

[SeddyRocky]

Why can't we all just get along?

The problem lies what "a good person" means. In order to be a good person according to the Mormon faith, you have to be a missionary. Now suppose that in order for [insert population living where Mormons usually go to spread their faith]  to be a good Hindu for example, they must not worship outside their religion/be converted.

Or for a simple example: Evangelic Lutheran-Christians (Just the split up name says a lot about division in religion) may think that in order to be a good person, one should embrace all God's children, wether they be women or gays or even unwed teenage couples. Now compare to the Christian movement in Uganda, who thinks that accepting/tolerating homosexuality is wrong and punishable in itself, while E L-C may think that it's wrong NOT to accept/tolerate it.

Had there been one objective truth in terms of what a good person is, this wouldn't be a problem.

[ZaIn]

Why can't we all just get along?

The problem lies what "a good person" means. In order to be a good person according to the Mormon faith, you have to be a missionary. Now suppose that in order for [insert population living where Mormons usually go to spread their faith]  to be a good Hindu for example, they must not worship outside their religion/be converted.

Or for a simple example: Evangelic Lutheran-Christians (Just the split up name says a lot about division in religion) may think that in order to be a good person, one should embrace all God's children, wether they be women or gays or even unwed teenage couples. Now compare to the Christian movement in Uganda, who thinks that accepting/tolerating homosexuality is wrong and punishable in itself, while E L-C may think that it's wrong NOT to accept/tolerate it.

Had there been one objective truth in terms of what a good person is, this wouldn't be a problem.

So in order to try and get along, The idea of what makes a "good person" needs to be establish universal ideas of what is a good person?  that would be that hard, I think, I mean, we could probably get a good idea by just taking all the various commandments, etc, Including input from various non-religious groups

[Neopergoss]

I was just talking about something like this in another thread. I think that most people have basically the same moral instincts -- conscience -- but what religion does is that it introduces tribalism and dogma. In other words, it divides people into groups based on unsupported beliefs that are deemed vitally important (eg: "Accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior or face eternity in Hell!"). If it weren't for these artificial divisions, people could get along much better and agree -- at least, most of the time -- about the difference between right and wrong. Religion tends to cloud people's judgment because it disconnects them from reality in favor of naive fantasy (eg: "My son can't get that surgery you doctors say he needs! I need Christian healing through prayer!"). It's very sad.

I'm certainly not saying things would be all rosy without religion. There would still be plenty of destructive tribalism, particularly in the form of patriotism. But it would certainly help. I can definitely sympathize with Lenin/Lennon's call for life without religion or countries, although one world government might be a solution worse than the problem. And even then you could have violent brawls between rival sports fans and things like that   

[SickTanicK]

Why can't we all just get along?

The problem lies what "a good person" means. In order to be a good person according to the Mormon faith, you have to be a missionary. Now suppose that in order for [insert population living where Mormons usually go to spread their faith]  to be a good Hindu for example, they must not worship outside their religion/be converted.

Or for a simple example: Evangelic Lutheran-Christians (Just the split up name says a lot about division in religion) may think that in order to be a good person, one should embrace all God's children, wether they be women or gays or even unwed teenage couples. Now compare to the Christian movement in Uganda, who thinks that accepting/tolerating homosexuality is wrong and punishable in itself, while E L-C may think that it's wrong NOT to accept/tolerate it.

Had there been one objective truth in terms of what a good person is, this wouldn't be a problem.

This is mostly to the "Why can't we all just get along?" part... And to the whole idea of "the basis of most religion is being a good person" kinda fits too... It's because, what I'm starting to notice anyway, the world really does work in a sort of balance... So basically, for every "Mother Theresa" type you're going to have an equal and opposite reaction... So you'll get you a "Leather Face" or two to balance out the world... And on just a random note, why do I hardly ever see any of the "Religion" threads based around some of the "bad" religions? Are people really that scared to talk about it or is there really just a low number of people who follow them/know a decent bit about them on these forums? Or I could just be totally missing the ones all together.... Either way just a bit of a thought I felt like putting out there... Also just to throw it out there, I'm not saying any of the ways are the right or wrong one... Trying to avoid so much hate, that I usually tend to get, when I go on about religion for a minute with anyone, because of my... I guess strange is the world, outlook on the entire subject.

[Daytripper]

I think many people feel the way you do. There is of course no universal standard of ''good'' we all agree on, but if you look around, human behaviour isn't that different. Personally I don't mind what others believe. If people want to talk about it I'm for it though.

The largest problem comes from the ends of the spectrum. Yes, you will see atheists shouting that belief in a God is irrational. I'm no fan of those either. On the other end we have Christianity and Islam, who claim their way is the only way. Believers will be rewarded, non believers will most likely be punished. This can only be avoided by accepting the prophet Jesus or Mohammed. It is not even enough to believe in a God. Christians and Muslims both believe in God, and yet they still bicker. If people believe this dogma they have a motivation to convert. Converting will help. It's also possible the believer can completely not understand there are atheists. ''Everybody knows there is a God, atheism is some kind of scam and all that.'' Now, if you were taught this mindset, it is very hard for others to reason with you.

 

[SickTanicK]

I agree with what you're saying, I think anyway, Daytripper. I can't stand any religious person who tries to force their belief on another person, regardless if it's a god-believing religion or a god-hating religion. But I love talking about the whole concept in general, just because it's something that... Well technically, anyone could be right and anyone could be wrong, in my opinion.

[ZaIn]

So if I understand you guys, the main reason we can't get along is the more dogmatic elements ?  For example, it's more "No your being a good person the wrong way!  Your suppose to be a good person this way!" As opposed to "Your being a bad person, be a good person!"?

[SickTanicK]

Naw, that's not what I'm saying at all really. I'm saying that for every good person there has to be an equally bad person. In my own opinion, of course, that's why I think we all can't just settle on one simple religious belief and we have all the equally hateful for all the loving. Sort of a Yin and Yang sort of complex, with the whole world in the balance.

[ZaIn]

Naw, that's not what I'm saying at all really. I'm saying that for every good person there has to be an equally bad person. In my own opinion, of course, that's why I think we all can't just settle on one simple religious belief and we have all the equally hateful for all the loving. Sort of a Yin and Yang sort of complex, with the whole world in the balance.

Ah ok, thanks for explaining

[SickTanicK]

Naw, that's not what I'm saying at all really. I'm saying that for every good person there has to be an equally bad person. In my own opinion, of course, that's why I think we all can't just settle on one simple religious belief and we have all the equally hateful for all the loving. Sort of a Yin and Yang sort of complex, with the whole world in the balance.

Ah ok, thanks for explaining

Not a problem. You're welcome, always glad to explain myself when given the chance.

[Neopergoss]

I think many people feel the way you do. There is of course no universal standard of ''good'' we all agree on, but if you look around, human behaviour isn't that different. Personally I don't mind what others believe. If people want to talk about it I'm for it though.

The largest problem comes from the ends of the spectrum. Yes, you will see atheists shouting that belief in a God is irrational. I'm no fan of those either. On the other end we have Christianity and Islam, who claim their way is the only way. Believers will be rewarded, non believers will most likely be punished. This can only be avoided by accepting the prophet Jesus or Mohammed. It is not even enough to believe in a God. Christians and Muslims both believe in God, and yet they still bicker. If people believe this dogma they have a motivation to convert. Converting will help. It's also possible the believer can completely not understand there are atheists. ''Everybody knows there is a God, atheism is some kind of scam and all that.'' Now, if you were taught this mindset, it is very hard for others to reason with you.

I agree that many atheists can get too caustic and condescending. As an avowed atheist myself, I find myself echoing wise religious moralists: "Hate the deed, not the person." Similarly, I hate religion without hating the religious. I can't think of religion without thinking about people divided against each other for petty reasons and large, evil institutions like the Church of Scientology or the Catholic Church. Try watching the documentary Deliver Us from Evil and see if you can keep yourself from thinking of the Catholic Church as evil.