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SnDance

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Quotes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=971.msg9061#msg9061
« on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:14 pm »

Because they are awesome. They can be atheist quotes, Buddhist quotes, hindu, jewish, christian, or any other quotes regarding religion. I will post quotes for all of these because I can and because I like them ^^.

Especailly the atheist quotes. They make my laugh. Good times.

This quote...I'm not sure where it fits in. Its about christianity though....I'll just put it here:

Throughout most of the history of the Christian religion books were quite scarce -- prohibitively expensive and time consuming to make.... When one considers this, it seems absurd that the Christian religion somehow is founded on the idea that Bibles were to function as some kind of instruction manual to be kept, studied, and followed to the letter by all true believers.

Atheist:

Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.   Isaac Asimov

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?   Epicurus

There once was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages.   Richard Lederer

Religion has actually convinced people that there`s an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do..And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever `til the end of time! ...But He loves you.   George Carlin

Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence.   Unknown

You are basically killing each other to see who has got the better imaginary friend.   Richard Jeni

Buddhist:

A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker.

Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace.

He is able who thinks he is able.

He who experiences the unity of life sees his own Self in all beings, and all beings in his own Self, and looks on everything with an impartial eye.

He who loves 50 people has 50 woes; he who loves no one has no woes.

It is better to travel well than to arrive.

Hindu:

Prosperity is not for the envious, Nor is greatness for men of impure conduct.

The individual "I" exists for as long as there is desire for pleasure.

The formless Absolute is my Father, and God with form is my Mother.” God reveals Himself in the form which His devotee loves most. His love for the devotee knows no bounds.

When the world arises in me, It is just an illusion: Water shimmering in the sun, A vein of silver in mother-of-pearl, A serpent in a strand of rope.

Among the wealthy, compassionate men claim the richest wealth, For material wealth is possessed by even contemptible men.

Christianity:

I can't find anything good, so I'ma leave this blank. Don't take it personally. I really can't find anything XD

Tao Te Ching:

Heaven and earth are impartial;
they see the 10,000 things as straw dogs.
The sage is not sentimental;
he treats all his people as straw dogs.

Knowing others is intelligence; knowing yourself is true wisdom. Mastering others is strength; mastering yourself is true power. If you realize that you have enough, you are truly rich.

When spring comes the grass grows by itself.

Governing a large country is like frying a small fish. You spoil it with too much poking.

Other:

You will remember everything the instant you desire it wholly. To desire wholly is to create.

You have so little faith in yourself because you are unwilling to accept the fact that perfect love is in you, and so you seek without for what you cannot find within.

Give faith to one another, for faith and hope and mercy are yours to give.

Only the self-accused condemn.

No one who hates but is afraid of love, and therefore must be afraid of God. He knows not what love means, he fears to love and loves to hate, and so he thinks that love is fearful, hate is love.

ElementalGod

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Re: Quotes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=971.msg19592#msg19592
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2010, 08:56:17 pm »
The atheist quotes are pure class, the rest aren't :)

PuppyChow

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Re: Quotes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=971.msg19602#msg19602
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2010, 09:15:15 pm »
Richard Lederer must have failed World History  ^-^.

icybraker

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Re: Quotes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=971.msg19617#msg19617
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2010, 09:35:55 pm »
He's sorta speaking the truth, though. The Dark Ages are represented by the entirely Christian lifestyle of Europeans.

"Governing a large country is like frying a small fish." You can make all kinds of comparisons nowadays, can't you.

PuppyChow

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Re: Quotes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=971.msg19628#msg19628
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2010, 09:52:52 pm »
Quote
He's sorta speaking the truth, though. The Dark Ages are represented by the entirely Christian lifestyle of Europeans.
Though that may be true, let me quote myself:
Quote
Lol @ Christianity causing the dark ages. Christianity was actually the ONE thing that unified Europe and the ONE thing that encouraged learning, aside from the brief Holy Roman Empire, which was also led by a Christian king.

-The only learned ones were Christian monks. Only they could read and write. Elsewhere, reading and writing was VERY rare. And they spent most of their time copying manuscripts from earlier times (like the teachings of Aristotle and the like), as well as the Bible.

-The only schools were created by the Holy Roman Empire or the Church.

-The only reason the Roman Empire stayed alive for so long is that Christianity became a unifying factor when the central government began to fail.

-The "continuation" of the Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, was predominantly Christian. This empire, and the Islamic empire, were the centers of learning and trade in the world.

-The crusades, though really a black mark in Europe's past, they reconnected Europe to the prospering Middle East (which had been copying Roman and Greek writings that would otherwise have been lost since the monks can only do so much), instigating some trade and reuniting Europe with much knowledge.

Really, the feudal system, inept rulers, and barbarian raids not allowing for any long standing central government were what caused the drop off in learning. Christianity is the only thing that saved it from going over the edge.

Oh, and my source is the AP World History Stearns textbook. It isn't false.
The dark ages aren't Christianity's fault.

icybraker

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Re: Quotes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=971.msg19648#msg19648
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2010, 10:19:30 pm »
Agreed. But the Dark Ages are represented by Christianity (as well as feudalism and whatnot); that you can't disagree with.

So basically, the dude who made the quote exploits Christianity by stating its negativity rather than its beneficial effect on the dark ages.

Offline vrt

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Re: Quotes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=971.msg19674#msg19674
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2010, 11:30:15 pm »
Taking your initial quote here, just to put things into perspective..

Quote
Lol @ Christianity causing the dark ages. Christianity was actually the ONE thing that unified Europe and the ONE thing that encouraged learning, aside from the brief Holy Roman Empire, which was also led by a Christian king.
If by 'unified' you mean 'oppressed everything else', then yes. This is reason to invade countries nowadays, though, ironically.
Quote
-The only learned ones were Christian monks. Only they could read and write. Elsewhere, reading and writing was VERY rare. And they spent most of their time copying manuscripts from earlier times (like the teachings of Aristotle and the like), as well as the Bible.
Hence: They're keeping the masses dumbed down. Dumb people, who have no other explanations for things, have to follow Christian belief because due to the indoctrination, they don't know any better.

Quote
-The only schools were created by the Holy Roman Empire or the Church.
And only taught church-approved, biased material.

Quote
-The only reason the Roman Empire stayed alive for so long is that Christianity became a unifying factor when the central government began to fail.
Go back to history class. The Roman Empire embraced every sort of religion, it was in fact part of ones personality and treated as untouchable.

Quote
-The "continuation" of the Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, was predominantly Christian. This empire, and the Islamic empire, were the centers of learning and trade in the world.
Biased teachings aren't meant for learning, they're meant for conversion.

Quote
-The crusades, though really a black mark in Europe's past, they reconnected Europe to the prospering Middle East (which had been copying Roman and Greek writings that would otherwise have been lost since the monks can only do so much), instigating some trade and reuniting Europe with much knowledge.
They could've just sent a trade caravan.

Quote
Really, the feudal system, inept rulers, and barbarian raids not allowing for any long standing central government were what caused the drop off in learning. Christianity is the only thing that saved it from going over the edge.
Not particularly. If schools would've been teaching non-biased information, the entire world as we have it now would've been different. For better or worse, I cannot say, because it never happened. But saying it's the 'only thing' is a very, very far stretch.


Quote
Oh, and my source is the AP World History Stearns textbook. It isn't false.
It isn't false, it's misinterpreted. There's a huge difference between having schools and teaching people. The Dark Ages were about indoctrination, not free will and advancement. We live with this legacy today, still.
So long and thanks for all the fish!

PuppyChow

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Re: Quotes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=971.msg19689#msg19689
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2010, 12:06:49 am »
Quote
If by 'unified' you mean 'oppressed everything else', then yes. This is reason to invade countries nowadays, though, ironically.
No, I don't mean oppressed everything else. There was NO long standing central power, like England or the United States today. The political power was in the hands of feudal lords. Christianity gave people a common cause, and the pope filled the power vaccum, since something had to.

Quote
Hence: They're keeping the masses dumbed down. Dumb people, who have no other explanations for things, have to follow Christian belief because due to the indoctrination, they don't know any better.
No, they aren't. The feudal lords, who actually couldn't read or write themselves, were afraid of knowledge, so they didn't want their subjects to learn it themselves. And besides that, the people just didn't want to learn. Finally, when the Renaissance, or the revival of Roman/Greek ideals, came about, people decided "hey! learnings cool! let's go learn how to make awesome art!"

Quote
And only taught church-approved, biased material.
Prove it. The Holy Roman Empire, though lead by a Christian king, was actually VERY close to what the old Roman empire did. It was almost an "early Renaissance." Too bad it didn't last very long due to viking invaders, or the Renaissance could have happened during this time versus the 16th century.

Quote
Go back to history class. The Roman Empire embraced every sort of religion, it was in fact part of ones personality and treated as untouchable.
No, YOU go back to history class. Through the Roman Empire *tolerated* other religions, that doesn't mean it *embraced* them. And do you know WHY the eastern roman empire survived longer than the western one? Among other reasons, one was that the eastern roman empire had Christianity as its official language once Constantine proclaimed it so. It then served as a unifying factor as the central government of the eastern roman empire began to fade. (Oh, and the western roman empire had long since faded).

Quote
Biased teachings aren't meant for learning, they're meant for conversion.
It seems you're very biased yourself. The Islamic world was actually very secular, and actually encouraged scientific learning. Some contributions include...
-Preserving Greek philosopher's manuscripts
-The astrolabe
-An early scientific method
-Advances in farming techniques
-The concept of "0". (They adopted 1-9 from the India, but then created the concept of "nothing," creating the Arabic numeral system we use today)
And of course, many more.

Quote
They could've just sent a trade caravan.
No, one trade caravan wouldn't have done enough. Multitudes, maybe. But like I said, the crusades are really a black mark on Christianity's past. But it still yielded positive results.

Quote
Not particularly. If schools would've been teaching non-biased information, the entire world as we have it now would've been different. For better or worse, I cannot say, because it never happened. But saying it's the 'only thing' is a very, very far stretch.
Too bad all these people in the middle ages that wanted to make unbiased schools couldn't. Oh wait. They could. It's just that there wasn't anybody that WANTED to. So the church did. The church created the schools because nobody else did. They filled the power vacuum. Some schools, even if biased as you say > no schools.

Quote
It isn't false, it's misinterpreted. There's a huge difference between having schools and teaching people. The Dark Ages were about indoctrination, not free will and advancement. We live with this legacy today, still.
So my history teacher taught it wrong? Okay then. Whatever you say /sarcasm. Anyway, here's what the AP World History textbook says as a summary:
Quote
Western Europe in the Middle Ages had a love-hate relationship with the world around it. Early on, Europe seemed threatened by Vikings, Asian nomads, and Islam. At the same time, Europeans actively copied many features from Islam and traded with Asians. Through selective acceptance of benefits from the world around them, this civilization developed a global awareness.
source: http://wps.ablongman.com/long_stearns_wcap_4/18/4648/1189934.cw/index.html (http://wps.ablongman.com/long_stearns_wcap_4/18/4648/1189934.cw/index.html)

Doesn't seem very indoctrinated. In fact, the Middle Ages were characterized by decentralization.

icybraker

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Re: Quotes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=971.msg19702#msg19702
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2010, 12:38:12 am »
I find myself agreeing with Puppychow here. vrt's points only make sense in a shallow kind of way, while on the whole, Puppy makes valid claims. The Crusades were kinda fail over and over; it'd be better if Christianity never did that ever again. :P

PuppyChow

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Re: Quotes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=971.msg19721#msg19721
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2010, 01:54:43 am »
Because I have an H in Biology and an A in AP World History, maybe? In fact, my best subjects are Science, Math, and History. I'd appreciate if if Vrt would actually back up his claims with concrete historical evidence, not biased conjecture.

(Edit: Conflict resolved)

Daxx

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Re: Quotes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=971.msg19724#msg19724
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2010, 02:15:32 am »
Actually you're both making mistakes regarding the history of the dark ages. They are referred to as "dark" because there isn't much historical data, not because everyone was oppressed and miserable as is popularly portrayed. The Christian church did very little to improve the situation (and certainly wasn't any sort of saviour, of Rome or anywhere else) but there are much greater crimes that the Church has to answer for than simple repressing and cloistering of learning in a social structure which isn't much different to stuff that went before it (disregarding Rome).

PuppyChow

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Re: Quotes https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=971.msg19726#msg19726
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2010, 02:46:46 am »
Actually you're both making mistakes regarding the history of the dark ages. They are referred to as "dark" because there isn't much historical data, not because everyone was oppressed and miserable as is popularly portrayed. The Christian church did very little to improve the situation (and certainly wasn't any sort of saviour, of Rome or anywhere else) but there are much greater crimes that the Church has to answer for than simple repressing and cloistering of learning in a social structure which isn't much different to stuff that went before it (disregarding Rome).
I was just saying that it didn't repress and cloister learning. If anything, the opposite.

And it's hard to disregard Greek/Rome, since those two cultures were so important to the world at the time and eventually the renaissance/enlightenment. Before that, there was no coherent culture in Europe.

 

blarg: