Proof Doesn't Matter

[BluePriest]

If god is omniscient, then free will is IMPOSSIBLE.  Free will can't be observed, that is also impossible because we will never know whether we have choice in our actions. Eating breakfast and candy really has nothing to do with affecting our free will...

False. There is a HUGE difference between knowing what someone will do and forcing them to do it.

[maverixk]

If god is omniscient, then free will is IMPOSSIBLE.  Free will can't be observed, that is also impossible because we will never know whether we have choice in our actions. Eating breakfast and candy really has nothing to do with affecting our free will...

False. There is a HUGE difference between knowing what someone will do and forcing them to do it.

That much is definitely true.
However, if God created the universe and is omniscient, then he would know every outcome of the way he created the universe, therefore deciding our actions for us.

[BluePriest]

If god is omniscient, then free will is IMPOSSIBLE.  Free will can't be observed, that is also impossible because we will never know whether we have choice in our actions. Eating breakfast and candy really has nothing to do with affecting our free will...

False. There is a HUGE difference between knowing what someone will do and forcing them to do it.

That much is definitely true.
However, if God created the universe and is omniscient, then he would know every outcome of the way he created the universe, therefore deciding our actions for us.

you are essentialy saying that it is impossible for God to have NOT decided our actions.

[Nepycros]

If God has an absolute plan, it stands to reason absolutely nothing we do can threaten the execution of the plan. >.>

[OldTrees]

If God has an absolute plan, it stands to reason absolutely nothing we do can threaten the execution of the plan. >.>

That is not the same as an Omniscient God not being able to not have an absolute plan.
If you are trying to make this stronger claim then you would need more support.

[mrgoodbar64]

The concept of this post is the same resin that religion exists in the first place, I don't understand so it must be magic.

If we are intelligent and intelligently designed buy some thing intelligent, then that intelligence witch is grater then ours must have been intelligently designed as well, so on and so forth. Thank you for creating an infinite loop of BS to disprove your own belief for us, it saves us the effort.

As for those that believe that someone is keeping a list of the good and bad things you do, so that you can get rewarded or punished, that is the same story as Santa Clause that children believe. You are a child please grow up.

[maverixk]

The concept of this post is the same resin that religion exists in the first place, I don't understand so it must be magic.

If we are intelligent and intelligently designed buy some thing intelligent, then that intelligence witch is grater then ours must have been intelligently designed as well, so on and so forth. Thank you for creating an infinite loop of BS to disprove your own belief for us, it saves us the effort.

As for those that believe that someone is keeping a list of the good and bad things you do, so that you can get rewarded or punished, that is the same story as Santa Clause that children believe. You are a child please grow up.

Whether or not your claim that religion is false is correct, you presumptions are...well, lacking.
Eh, sort of a valid point. Probably not phrased in the best way, but still.
Yeah, correlations exist, but that doesn't make it false. You are presenting your points in an insulting manner that makes you feel like you're right. You are a child please grow up.
There is no reason that the loop wouldn't end at our creator. My claim there is just as valid as yours, the loop has no reason to stop or to continue.

[mrgoodbar64]

So intelligence dose not need to be designed... Thanks for proving my point.

Also why don't are legs just grow back? Seems to me you believe in a pretty week and lame god.

[BluePriest]

The concept of this post is the same resin that religion exists in the first place, I don't understand so it must be magic.

If we are intelligent and intelligently designed buy some thing intelligent, then that intelligence witch is grater then ours must have been intelligently designed as well, so on and so forth. Thank you for creating an infinite loop of BS to disprove your own belief for us, it saves us the effort.

As for those that believe that someone is keeping a list of the good and bad things you do, so that you can get rewarded or punished, that is the same story as Santa Clause that children believe. You are a child please grow up.

Im assuming you just read the title. The point of this topic is that for many people, no matter what happens, they will not believe in God. It is pretty much a remark to the people that say they dont believe in him because there is no proof. This topic is in no way saying that you shouldnt need proof to believe in God or anything of the sort.

Once again, I have made no assertions in this topic that God exists. See above.
I'll ignore that all of my friends and most people I know personally believe me to be mature beyond my years for a moment to respond to the none trolling part of this. I will also ignore for a moment that this part is largely irrelevant to the topic as a whole. The person that seems to not understand is you, because your theology is completely wrong (do good and you will be rewarded, do bad and you will be punished)

So intelligence dose not need to be designed... Thanks for proving my point.

Also why don't are legs just grow back? Seems to me you believe in a pretty week and lame god.

God is the beginning and the end, always was here, and always will be. He does not have a designer because he has always existed, and therefor can NOT have a designer
trolling is ignored

[Neopergoss]

The point of this topic is that for many people, no matter what happens, they will not believe in God. It is pretty much a remark to the people that say they dont believe in him because there is no proof.

I think I lost track of that somewhere. In that case, I feel the need to respond. I don't believe in God because there is no proof. It is true that in order for me to believe in God, I would need something truly extraordinary to happen. Why? Well the short answer is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I can expound upon that if asked, but I think the truth of that statement is clear enough.

The important point, however, is that there are plenty of things that could happen that would make me believe. I would certainly be shocked and I might not change my mind immediately, but presented with the right kind of evidence, I wouldn't be able to come to any other conclusion. I mean, aliens or wizards would always be possible, but when you're faced with apparently absolute power you might as well be talking about a god.

Example: my keyboard turns into cheese right now. So the point of this post is that your premise is false, BluePriest.

Sidenote:

There is a HUGE difference between knowing what someone will do and forcing them to do it.

Not if you created them and the entire universe and that universe functions deterministically. And if it's possible to know what someone is going to do ahead of time, that implies a deterministic universe.

Free will is just a way for theists to try to explain our suffering. There is no more reason to believe it exists than to believe that God exists. It's slight-of-hand to try to make ourselves feel important and independent while at the same time defending theism.

[OldTrees]

The point of this topic is that for many people, no matter what happens, they will not believe in God. It is pretty much a remark to the people that say they dont believe in him because there is no proof.

I think I lost track of that somewhere. In that case, I feel the need to respond. I don't believe in God because there is no proof. It is true that in order for me to believe in God, I would need something truly extraordinary to happen. Why? Well the short answer is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I can expound upon that if asked, but I think the truth of that statement is clear enough.

The important point, however, is that there are plenty of things that could happen that would make me believe. I would certainly be shocked and I might not change my mind immediately, but presented with the right kind of evidence, I wouldn't be able to come to any other conclusion. I mean, aliens or wizards would always be possible, but when you're faced with apparently absolute power you might as well be talking about a god.

Example: my keyboard turns into cheese right now. So the point of this post is that your premise is false, BluePriest.

BluePriest is not denying that Extraordinary claims demand Extraordinary evidence. In fact he is criticizing a subset of people who knowingly or unknowingly reject that.
To believe that "Extraordinary claims (EC) demand Extraordinary evidence (EE)" is to claim that "If the EC were true then EE would exists even if currently unknown".
BluePriest is criticizing people that require impossible evidence even if the claim were true.

Tying this to your example: If your keyboard turned to cheese you could provide evidence in the form of the cheese keyboard and some receipt/packaging for the keyboard. Pretend I rejected this evidence and instead demanded a video of the event. If you had luckily been making a webvideo it might have caught it on tape. This would be extraordinary evidence. If I would reject all possible evidence for the event prior to seeing the evidence then I would be requiring impossible evidence for a merely extraordinary claim.

TLDR:
BluePriest is defending "Extraordinary claims merely demand Extraordinary evidence not Impossible evidence. Requiring Impossible evidence for any claim is irrational."

[BluePriest]

Example: my keyboard turns into cheese right now. So the point of this post is that your premise is false, BluePriest.

So if your keyboard turned into cheese, and that cheese spoke and said "I am the God of the Christians," im not saying you would worship the God of the Christians, but would you believe it existed?