Proof Doesn't Matter

[jmdt]

Who says their isn't proof that God exists?

As a kid from a family of penticostal missionaries and ministers, I have seen a number of strange things in my life and heard stories of occurances my family members have seen or some even more bizzare.  I have seen a number of people 'healed' of various things: cancers, blood clots in the brain, loss of hearing, etc.  When I say healed, I mean the person went to the doctor and had an x-ray, MRI or other documentation that they had a major problem, were prayed for for healing, and when they returned to the doctors all tests showed that whatever ailment thay did have was complely gone.  I've seen it dozens of times.

If we want to go even further.  I've seen an exorcism before.  I saw a little tiny 5 foot woman's eyes turn pitch black, her veins get a black color and she speak crazy things in the voice of a man until the demon was removed.  I've heard stories from my parents, uncle, and other friends of a demon that possed a 5 year year old boy and the small boy whipped 4 grown men before my uncle was able to perform an excorcism.  My cousin who was a missionairy has tons more stories like this.

This is just scratching the surface of things and I'm too busy to go further, but there is plenty of proof God exists.  People just don't look for it and ignore it when they see it.

[Jenkar]

Who says their isn't proof that God exists?

As a kid from a family of penticostal missionaries and ministers, I have seen a number of strange things in my life and heard stories of occurances my family members have seen or some even more bizzare.  I have seen a number of people 'healed' of various things: cancers, blood clots in the brain, loss of hearing, etc.  When I say healed, I mean the person went to the doctor and had an x-ray, MRI or other documentation that they had a major problem, were prayed for for healing, and when they returned to the doctors all tests showed that whatever ailment thay did have was complely gone.  I've seen it dozens of times.

If we want to go even further.  I've seen an exorcism before.  I saw a little tiny 5 foot woman's eyes turn pitch black, her veins get a black color and she speak crazy things in the voice of a man until the demon was removed.  I've heard stories from my parents, uncle, and other friends of a demon that possed a 5 year year old boy and the small boy whipped 4 grown men before my uncle was able to perform an excorcism.  My cousin who was a missionairy has tons more stories like this.

This is just scratching the surface of things and I'm too busy to go further, but there is plenty of proof God exists.  People just don't look for it and ignore it when they see it.

Meh. Again, this proves nothing. On the one hand :
-All those were things that we do not understand yet, but will eventually.
On the other :
-All those are supernatural.

I daresay i would aplaud if you can give me something that sways either way.

[Jocko]

Also, that is your experience.
I never been near an exorcism, demons, or black eyed women myself, so i find it hard to believe that such things really exist.

[jmdt]

Who says their isn't proof that God exists?

As a kid from a family of penticostal missionaries and ministers, I have seen a number of strange things in my life and heard stories of occurances my family members have seen or some even more bizzare.  I have seen a number of people 'healed' of various things: cancers, blood clots in the brain, loss of hearing, etc.  When I say healed, I mean the person went to the doctor and had an x-ray, MRI or other documentation that they had a major problem, were prayed for for healing, and when they returned to the doctors all tests showed that whatever ailment thay did have was complely gone.  I've seen it dozens of times.

If we want to go even further.  I've seen an exorcism before.  I saw a little tiny 5 foot woman's eyes turn pitch black, her veins get a black color and she speak crazy things in the voice of a man until the demon was removed.  I've heard stories from my parents, uncle, and other friends of a demon that possed a 5 year year old boy and the small boy whipped 4 grown men before my uncle was able to perform an excorcism.  My cousin who was a missionairy has tons more stories like this.

This is just scratching the surface of things and I'm too busy to go further, but there is plenty of proof God exists.  People just don't look for it and ignore it when they see it.

Meh. Again, this proves nothing. On the one hand :
-All those were things that we do not understand yet, but will eventually.
On the other :
-All those are supernatural.

I daresay i would aplaud if you can give me something that sways either way.

I'm a scientist; I look at evidence objectively.

When a person has stomach cancer and is having surgery in 3 days, I pray for that person to be healed by the power of Jesus, and the next day at the doctor x-rays show that the cancer just dissapeared, what other conclusion can I come to other than the fact that God may have had something to do with it.  Cancer just doesn't dissapear by itself.  Cancer by definition is out of control cell growth.  If left untreated cancer cells just don't stop, they keep multiplying such that thay will eventually kill you.  So my question is, if I pray to my God for something impossible to happen and it does happen, then what other conclusion is their that my diety is not only real, but took care of whatever issue it was I had?

If one does not keep an open mind to the possibility that a God may exist, one will reject any indication that it may be true.  I've seen too much proof to not believe God is real.

[jmdt]

Also, that is your experience.
I never been near an exorcism, demons, or black eyed women myself, so i find it hard to believe that such things really exist.

I have no experience outside the US, I find it hard to believe that ancient folk with their primative tools built the pyramids, I refuse to believe they really exists.

(Not serious, but the same logic applies.  Rejecting something because you have no experience with it or dislike the premise is very unscientific.)

[DrunkDestroyer]

If one does not keep an open mind to the possibility that a God may exist, one will reject any indication that it may be true.

[darkrobe]

Who says their isn't proof that God exists?

As a kid from a family of penticostal missionaries and ministers, I have seen a number of strange things in my life and heard stories of occurances my family members have seen or some even more bizzare.  I have seen a number of people 'healed' of various things: cancers, blood clots in the brain, loss of hearing, etc.  When I say healed, I mean the person went to the doctor and had an x-ray, MRI or other documentation that they had a major problem, were prayed for for healing, and when they returned to the doctors all tests showed that whatever ailment thay did have was complely gone.  I've seen it dozens of times.

If we want to go even further.  I've seen an exorcism before.  I saw a little tiny 5 foot woman's eyes turn pitch black, her veins get a black color and she speak crazy things in the voice of a man until the demon was removed.  I've heard stories from my parents, uncle, and other friends of a demon that possed a 5 year year old boy and the small boy whipped 4 grown men before my uncle was able to perform an excorcism.  My cousin who was a missionairy has tons more stories like this.

This is just scratching the surface of things and I'm too busy to go further, but there is plenty of proof God exists.  People just don't look for it and ignore it when they see it.

Meh. Again, this proves nothing. On the one hand :
-All those were things that we do not understand yet, but will eventually.
On the other :
-All those are supernatural.

I daresay i would aplaud if you can give me something that sways either way.

I'm a scientist; I look at evidence objectively.

When a person has stomach cancer and is having surgery in 3 days, I pray for that person to be healed by the power of Jesus, and the next day at the doctor x-rays show that the cancer just dissapeared, what other conclusion can I come to other than the fact that God may have had something to do with it.  Cancer just doesn't dissapear by itself.  Cancer by definition is out of control cell growth.  If left untreated cancer cells just don't stop, they keep multiplying such that thay will eventually kill you.  So my question is, if I pray to my God for something impossible to happen and it does happen, then what other conclusion is their that my diety is not only real, but took care of whatever issue it was I had?

If one does not keep an open mind to the possibility that a God may exist, one will reject any indication that it may be true.  I've seen too much proof to not believe God is real.

would you volunteer to let us perform an experiment and we verify that something you pray for happens?

[Jocko]

Also, that is your experience.
I never been near an exorcism, demons, or black eyed women myself, so i find it hard to believe that such things really exist.

I have no experience outside the US, I find it hard to believe that ancient folk with their primative tools built the pyramids, I refuse to believe they really exists.

(Not serious, but the same logic applies.  Rejecting something because you have no experience with it or dislike the premise is very unscientific.)

So you think blindly accepting something because someone told you about it is very scientific?

[BluePriest]

would you volunteer to let us perform an experiment and we verify that something you pray for happens?

Jesus answered, "It says: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

Also, that is your experience.
I never been near an exorcism, demons, or black eyed women myself, so i find it hard to believe that such things really exist.

I have no experience outside the US, I find it hard to believe that ancient folk with their primative tools built the pyramids, I refuse to believe they really exists.

(Not serious, but the same logic applies.  Rejecting something because you have no experience with it or dislike the premise is very unscientific.)

So you think blindly accepting something because someone told you about it is very scientific?

You realize all of history is just a matter of what we choose to believe and what we dont correct? After this moment, there will be no record of me posting this. You can say this existing is proof, but how do you know it is the actual Blue Priest that wrote it, and not for example, my wife who happened to grab the computer? There are things every day that we accept on blind faith.

-Edit-
He also mentioned that several things were first hand experiences.

[OldTrees]

Who says their isn't proof that God exists?

As a kid from a family of penticostal missionaries and ministers, I have seen a number of strange things in my life and heard stories of occurances my family members have seen or some even more bizzare.  I have seen a number of people 'healed' of various things: cancers, blood clots in the brain, loss of hearing, etc.  When I say healed, I mean the person went to the doctor and had an x-ray, MRI or other documentation that they had a major problem, were prayed for for healing, and when they returned to the doctors all tests showed that whatever ailment thay did have was complely gone.  I've seen it dozens of times.

If we want to go even further.  I've seen an exorcism before.  I saw a little tiny 5 foot woman's eyes turn pitch black, her veins get a black color and she speak crazy things in the voice of a man until the demon was removed.  I've heard stories from my parents, uncle, and other friends of a demon that possed a 5 year year old boy and the small boy whipped 4 grown men before my uncle was able to perform an excorcism.  My cousin who was a missionairy has tons more stories like this.

This is just scratching the surface of things and I'm too busy to go further, but there is plenty of proof God exists.  People just don't look for it and ignore it when they see it.

Meh. Again, this proves nothing. On the one hand :
-All those were things that we do not understand yet, but will eventually.
On the other :
-All those are supernatural.

I daresay i would aplaud if you can give me something that sways either way.

I'm a scientist; I look at evidence objectively.

When a person has stomach cancer and is having surgery in 3 days, I pray for that person to be healed by the power of Jesus, and the next day at the doctor x-rays show that the cancer just dissapeared, what other conclusion can I come to other than the fact that God may have had something to do with it.  Cancer just doesn't dissapear by itself.  Cancer by definition is out of control cell growth.  If left untreated cancer cells just don't stop, they keep multiplying such that thay will eventually kill you.  So my question is, if I pray to my God for something impossible to happen and it does happen, then what other conclusion is their that my diety is not only real, but took care of whatever issue it was I had?

If one does not keep an open mind to the possibility that a God may exist, one will reject any indication that it may be true.  I've seen too much proof to not believe God is real.

Lets assume the praying caused the change. What evidence do you have that a God was involved in the causal chain rather than a non divine force created from the praying?

[Camoninja]

Science and God don't have to be mutually exclusive, do they? As SG said:

I only seek the truth. If that truth is God existing, then I'm happy to accept that, because I like the idea of a higher power. Unfortunately it is very likely that that is no such higher power.

Isn't it still possible to be completely scientific and have an open mind about God?

And just because you see something that's impossible to explain doesn't mean that something has to be true. And even if God really did come to visit, and give a speech on the roof of the White House, how would you prove it really was Him and not an impostor? Edit: Ninja'd here by BluePriest:

You realize all of history is just a matter of what we choose to believe and what we dont correct? After this moment, there will be no record of me posting this. You can say this existing is proof, but how do you know it is the actual Blue Priest that wrote it, and not for example, my wife who happened to grab the computer? There are things every day that we accept on blind faith.

And I've seen times when something obvious happens and you (or someone else) won't believe it because they believe so hard in something else, that they just completely miss things, like DD quoted. (Example: putting something you use somewhere and remembering it being you definitely put it somewhere else, and you walk by the thing you're looking for and look right past it.)

Who says their isn't proof that God exists?

As a kid from a family of penticostal missionaries and ministers, I have seen a number of strange things in my life and heard stories of occurances my family members have seen or some even more bizzare.  I have seen a number of people 'healed' of various things: cancers, blood clots in the brain, loss of hearing, etc.  When I say healed, I mean the person went to the doctor and had an x-ray, MRI or other documentation that they had a major problem, were prayed for for healing, and when they returned to the doctors all tests showed that whatever ailment thay did have was complely gone.  I've seen it dozens of times.

If we want to go even further.  I've seen an exorcism before.  I saw a little tiny 5 foot woman's eyes turn pitch black, her veins get a black color and she speak crazy things in the voice of a man until the demon was removed.  I've heard stories from my parents, uncle, and other friends of a demon that possed a 5 year year old boy and the small boy whipped 4 grown men before my uncle was able to perform an excorcism.  My cousin who was a missionairy has tons more stories like this.

This is just scratching the surface of things and I'm too busy to go further, but there is plenty of proof God exists.  People just don't look for it and ignore it when they see it.

Meh. Again, this proves nothing. On the one hand :
-All those were things that we do not understand yet, but will eventually.
On the other :
-All those are supernatural.

I daresay i would aplaud if you can give me something that sways either way.

I'm a scientist; I look at evidence objectively.

When a person has stomach cancer and is having surgery in 3 days, I pray for that person to be healed by the power of Jesus, and the next day at the doctor x-rays show that the cancer just dissapeared, what other conclusion can I come to other than the fact that God may have had something to do with it.  Cancer just doesn't dissapear by itself.  Cancer by definition is out of control cell growth.  If left untreated cancer cells just don't stop, they keep multiplying such that thay will eventually kill you.  So my question is, if I pray to my God for something impossible to happen and it does happen, then what other conclusion is their that my diety is not only real, but took care of whatever issue it was I had?

If one does not keep an open mind to the possibility that a God may exist, one will reject any indication that it may be true.  I've seen too much proof to not believe God is real.

would you volunteer to let us perform an experiment and we verify that something you pray for happens?

I don't think this would work if someone's (God's here, He doesn't have to grant your prayers) will had a direct influence on the outcome.

[DrunkDestroyer]

I would also like to say something.





Someone growing their leg back isn't necessarily proof God exists. It's a Miracle, right? Yes.
Now, it gets proved by science. Person X had Condition and Gene Y, which combined with Z factor makes it possible. Is it not a Miracle anymore?
So, now that its proved by science, that clearly means that any God could have zero involvement.
Because, if God made the Universe and everything else, 'Science' is its own thing, and happens without any involvement whatsoever.


You live. There is a world around you. There is a whole fucking universe, of animals, humans, conversation, music, pizza, horticulture. Something exists. Why is there anything at all? God is an easy answer here too, but then again, you ask yourself about God, and whether he exists.
And at the point where you realise that nothing makes sense (or at least, one of these points depending on how easily you get confused) you might start to think about the possibility.

Or at least, that is how I started actually thinking about it, and believing it.